Mormon Truth Podcast #6-Better Off Dead?!!
MP3 File
My new podcast is up and running and explores the Mormon doctrine of "better off dead or in a pine box", then to be immoral. It's an evil doctrine and one of the main men that taught and believed this doctrine was the former Mormon Prophet, Spencer W. Kimball. Kimball, next to Brigham Young, was one of the most evil Prophets that the Mormons have ever had. I explore a talk given by Kimball at BYU in 1965, called "love and lust." It condemns everyone, especially, fornicators, homosexuals and masturbators. Oh yeah, and for God's sake, don't ever have any type of sexual thought.
I had a lot of material to cover and again, I wanted to only record a one hour show, but it ended up being 2. I also had much more material that I'm saving for a future podcast, especially the one that I'll be doing on the Mormon Church's anti-gay stance. Kimball was definitely behind that one, just like modern day Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, who spent millions in California and Hawaii, to defeat the Gay marriage amendment. I have some truly tragic stories to share that were related to that fight, plus some shocking things that still go on in the Mormon Church to try "to cure" homosexuality. The Mormon Church is a very evil, vile organization and causes death and suicide in some cases, but then according to their quotes, that is their ultimate goal. I'll end with a quote from the Mormon First Presidency in 1981: "It is better to die chaste than to live unchaste."
My post from Mormon Truth regarding "better off dead."
Written Version of Spencer W. Kimball's Love Vs. Lust-BYU Devotional-January 5th, 1965:
Another Version of Love Vs. Lust
http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/LovevsLust.pdf
Audio Version of Love Vs. Lust from the BYU Speeches Website.(Note, barely resembles the written version. Entire paragraphs are not even spoken, etc.)
http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=707
Pictures of the Joseph Smith Nativity scene displayed at BYU
I hope that you guys enjoy the Podcast and can understand better, just how dangerous the Mormon Church is. Not only are they a cult, but they are a dangerous, evil cult, that teaches you are "better off dead, than unchaste." In some cases, this very thing has happened, and people have committed suicide, due to not being able to live up to the lofty standards and their subsequent depression.
So, I imagine that there was a celebration in Salt Lake when these deaths occurred. What else am I supposed to surmise, considering they've never come out to condemn or rescind these hate filled, destructive teachings? I wonder if Hinckley gave a damn when that homosexual man in California, committed suicide, right on the Church's front steps, after the ban on gay marriage was passed. Doesn't the Mormon Hierarchy realize what their hate/bigoted teachings are doing to some people? Christ's Church? Yeah right!!
Of course, a major player in that fight, was the Mormon Church, which spent millions and organized Stakes and Wards from one of California to the other , just to be able to fight and defeat the gay marriage amendment. What asses!! I'll be covering this subject thoroughly on my main Mormon Truth blog and my podcasts.
I will cover this much much more in a podcast in the very near future. Oh, by the way, I can't find one thing, on the Church's website, that mentions the Missionary that died in Argentina, but plenty of other BS, that is making news. I guess his death, meant nothing, just as I supposed. The Mormon Church Hierarchy doesn't give a damn about anybody, but themselves and their Billions!!
The bottom line is that the Mormon Church cares about one thing and one thing only!!
Money!!!!!!!!
Samuel the Utahnite
Labels: Better Off Dead, Cult, Death, Evil, Joseph Smith, LDS, Mormon, Mormonism, Spencer W. Kimball, Thomas S. Monson, Vile
posted by Samuel the Utahnite @ 12/15/2005 12:42:00 AM
17 comments
17 Comments:
Samuel...
You have clearly shown in this podcast and many others, that this is a church of men and not of God. The church is always changing its tune. It‘s constantly shifting doctrine and scripture to fit their current needs and reputation.
The Mormon church claims to believe in the Holy Bible (“as long as it is translated
correctly”). The strange thing about that is, Mormon scriptures and teachings completely go against what the Bible says. The Bible does not change…it is what it is.
I ran across something very interesting in mormonstories.org. It was an entire presentation on why people leave the church. It was a very powerful message. But, the end was straight up comical. John Dehlin said, “Forget true…consider good. Do what brings you joy.” Let’s examine this statement.
First of all; “Good” compared to what? Hitler thought he was doing “good”. Mother Teresa did a lot of “good” things. Is she “good”? Many people think that President Bush is a “good” president. My Mormon neighbor shoveled the snow off of my sidewalk for me, and he goes to his Mormon church every Sunday. Is he “good”?
Next is “truth”. Forgetting “truth” is a very dangerous thing. But not so if “truth” comes from the Mormon church. There is no “truth” to that church. Except that Joseph Smith was a pervert and a liar. But the Bible is “true”. So to forget that is forsaking God’s word. The last time I checked the Mormon church believes in the Bible. Well, so they say.
Next is “joy”. Many things in life are “joyful” and have nothing to do with God. As a Christian person, to only take in life what brings you “joy” is meaningless. I am sure President Hinckley is very “joyful” that all of the members (customers) of the church are paying full tithing.
Basically what you have is a false church with “good” intentions and “joyful” members (customers) that is actually a multi-billion dollar business, that preys (not praying) on its members.
Thanks for all your great podcasts and posts!!! It kind of shows you that proving the church is a cult that loves to make money is like shootin’ fish in a barrel.
Hi, I just listened to you pod cast. It was really informative. My husband and I just left the church 8 months ago with our 3 little boys. I so glad that all this guilt will never heeped on them like it was us. As of the late 1990's biship's are still making young teens and couples read the miracle of forgiveness. I have never felt so bad about myself in my whole life. I am so glad I now have the truth about these manipulative men and their agendas. I am not advocating premarital sex either, but to make one of the most natural and intense human emotions into a sin next to murder even a thought about sex is total manipulation and mind control. Keep up the great work!!
Just iTuned your last podcast and it was good.
That nativity scene is so shameful. Why not piss on the real creche when they are at it? That more then anything is a fine example of the anto-Christ nature of J. Smith worship.
Well, I've just finished listening to your full set of podcasts. Interesting. As someone else said, you carry a lot of anger. You haven't really left the Church until you let that go and live your life. I live in Utah. However I was raised in the mission field. My lines go back to the original 300 families of Mormonisn. I served a mission. I was married in the temple. My whole extended family is active. I knew all of the "deep stuff" when you were a young kid. I've done original research around the country and most significant Church historians have known me at one time or another. It didn't cause me to leave the Church. None of that did. I even vetted a lot of the anti-material for a couple major anti groups like Ex Mormons for Christ for accuracy from a Church perspective. I met Wesley Walters for discussions when he was alive. I had ties into the fundamentalists too. They had access to more primary historical material in the 70's. None of this was a deal breaker for me.
I mean, Joseph Smith was a polygamous, I didn't know that, waaaa. Brigham Young was too. Oh that was OK. I knew that. The Church was bigoted. I didn't know that, waaaaa. The Church is changing history to make Joseph Smith a Saint. Geez, I didn't know that. Waaaaa. If your decision to move on is based on intellectual stuff, get over it. The Catholic Church gets on just fine even with The Crusades, selling indulgences, the inquisition, etc. etc. Being in the Church isn't about knowing the mysteries it's about getting heartburn at the right time and having faith that the LDS Church is true.
Anytime a Church ties their Gospel to actual events, there's going to be problems. So what. Every Church doing it is in the same boat. In many areas the LDS Church is more benign than a number of born again religions.
I traveled a lot; thought a lot; made some decsions, as did my wife. We left. Got happy and moved on.
Find a happy place. Live there. Move on. Let other born again exMo's carry on a silly crusade. When you can go several months with no more thoughts about The Church than you would about the Catholic Church, you've arrived.
Find other hobbies. I find that joining a good wine tasting group helps. We never talk about the Church. Find friends with other hobbies that are not Churchy. Tell the family. If they can't handle it, it's not your problem. Eventally, things will work out. After 15 years my brother now lets me bring wine to dinners.
Thanks Eric, Anon and Gunner for your comments. Eric, you are right, it is so obvious that the Mormon Church is from man and not from God. I'm glad that my podcasts have made that clear. That is one of many of my objectives in doing these podcasts.
I want to make it crystal clear for those that are so brainwashed, that they just can't see it. I remember on my mission and growing up in the Church, we were taught that the Mormon Church was different, for the fact that we didn't constantly change and shift in our beliefs and doctrines.
We believed one thing and stuck with it, never changing our mind. We weren't like the Catholics, they said, "we don't do surveys." Well obviously, they need surveys because they certainly don't have anything coming from above.
I think that the should re-name "The Miracle of forgiveness" to the Miracle of Death" since many Mormon General Authorities believe that you are better off dead. What a sick, sick, demented cult!! I beat the hell out of myself for years, due to my thoughts, if I got turned on or masturbated, etc.
I've told the story about one of my friends that has attempted suicide many times due to his immorality. I have another friend that walks the edge every day, because he knows if he masturbates or looks at a Playboy, he is spiritually dead.
For anyone out there that says move on and just get past it, I say screw you and get the hell out of here. Obviously you are the selfish person that doesn't give a damn about helping others.
Sorry, someone just left me a message basically saying just that. Yeah, what's the big deal? Who gives a damn if people kill themselves over Mormon Doctrine? Don't be angry, be happy. I say get lost and go live your pathetic life while I try to help people along with everyone else here that sees the reality of Mormonism.
As far as that Joseph nativity scene, at BYU, it is indeed so shameful and disgusting. Oh yeah, but the Mormons don't worship Joseph Smith, no, not at all. Dumb asses!!
Anyway, take care guys, I have to go respond to this other comment that I just got and I would appreciate you guys responding as well. He seems like a nice guy but pathetic in his "just move on", "don't be so angry." I would appreciate your comments.
Thanks everybody for your comments and participation, you guys are awesome!!
Samuel the Utahnite
Anonymous said...
Well, I've just finished listening to your full set of podcasts. Interesting. As someone else said, you carry a lot of anger.
You are damn right that I carry some anger and you know why? I'm sure you don't have a clue, but let me spell it out for you.
I get angry when there are destructive organizations, like the Mormon Church, based on fraud and lies, that destroy lives and families. That doesn't upset you? Do you have a pulse?
I get angry period, whenever there is injustice and I wonder what it's like living your life not giving a damn about life and death issues? I'm glad that I don't know that feeling and that I don't live that way.
I'm glad that I have passion and the desire to right wrongs and help people that are being wronged on a daily basis by 50,000 missionaries who continue preaching this fraud to innocent, naive people and in many cases, poor, not very educated people.
You haven't really left the Church until you let that go and live your life. I live in Utah. However I was raised in the mission field.
Is that right? So, my effort to help others and expose the fraud of Mormonism, is wrong, in your opinion, because it means that I haven't "let go" and "I'm not living my life?" Wow, who crowned you God and King of the Earth and my life?
I don't have to be doing what I'm doing and I do it because I care about others. I want to help others and the response has been overwhelming in that regard. I get "thank you so much" Emails everyday.
I spend countless hours every week/month researching and doing what I do, so that I can help people learn what I now know. I wouldn't spend all of this time doing this, if I wasn't passionate about my desires.
I want to expose to the world the fraud of Mormonism and help as many people as I can along the way.
My lines go back to the original 300 families of Mormonism.
Not to be rude, but who cares? You could be a direct descendant of Joseph Smith himself and it doesn't change anything. You don't give a damn, don't think I should be doing what I'm doing and your lineage has nothing to do with that, does it?
Although, it may explain your attitude toward me and why I shouldn't be doing what I'm doing, making the effort that I'm making, right?
You must be pretty proud of being in that "original 300", and if only we could be as special as you. I know that Sandra Tanner is a direct descendant of Brigham Young going back like 5 generations, but she is disgusted by that fact, not proud of it, that's for sure.
I'm sure that she wishes that it weren't true, to be related to such and evil, bigoted man that did some horrible things.
That is what helped lead her out of the Church, when she discovered the horrible behavior of Brigham Young himself. Again, nothing to be proud of, in my opinion and it certainly doesn't change anything, regarding the facts of the fraud of Mormonism.
I served a mission. I was married in the temple.,
Hey me too!! In fact, many of my readers and listeners, have done those two very things, so again, no big deal.
In other words, it doesn't give you any more special insight or strength in your opinions, than what most of us have. Many of us are on very equal ground regarding all of these things.
I state that in my profile, to simply point out that I was a die-hard Mormon and did all of the things that are expected in the Mormon community.
Most TBM Mormons are shocked by that fact that I did all of those things and then turned on the Church.
I once knew somebody that had left the Church after missions, BYU, Temple marriage, etc and I was stunned. I asked,"how could somebody turn against the light and deny what they know is true." Now I understand and want to help others understand.
My whole extended family is active. I knew all of the "deep stuff" when you were a young kid.,
Again, so what? Are you stating all of this to try to one up all of us and show us how important your opinion is or what? How old are you? Maybe that's why you "knew all of the 'deep stuff' when I was a young kid."
I know all of the deep stuff now, you knew it when I was a kid, so what? How old were you when I was a kid? That might give us some perspective eh?
Who cares when you learned the deep stuff, we all know it now, lets move on.
I've done original research around the country and most significant Church historians have known me at one time or another. It didn't cause me to leave the Church. None of that did.
Again, are we supposed to be blown away by your amazing credentials?
I guess in your eyes, we can only dream of being you or having your vast, amazing experience.
So, what have you written or published to help share the truth with the world? Would you please share it with us? Enlighten us with your incredible knowledge and experience.
Also, congrats, you are known all over the country, hung out with Church historians drinking hot chocolate and it didn't cause you to leave the Church.
It's good to know and it gives us insight into you, that you could study all of the damning stuff and not care or want to leave.
Apparently, you were fine with whatever you found or better yet, it made your testimony stronger, right? I'm just guessing on that last supposition.
I even vetted a lot of the anti-material for a couple major anti groups like Ex Mormons for Christ for accuracy from a Church perspective.
Well, congrats again, you are truly amazing. Rest assured, I don't need your help "vetting my anti-material for accuracy from a Church perspective." The Church perspective on anything is a complete joke.
So, in other words, the truth comes out, you were actually a professional apologist for the Mormon Church. Now it all makes sense. Thanks for being honest!!
It's like me, or anyone, going to their local Bishop to discuss all of the things that I discuss on my blog or podcasts. Here would be some great questions for the Bishop:
Hey Bishop, "how do you feel about 'better off dead' teachings?" Were they inspired? Hey Bishop, "do you believe as Kimball and Packer did and do, that masturbation leads to the gross sin of homosexuality?"
Hey Bishop, "Do you believe that an angel of God, with a flaming sword, was going to slay Joseph Smith if he didn't marry and have sex with kids as young as 14, other men's wives, other men's pregnant wives, Sisters, Mother/daughters, etc?"
Hey Bishop, "do you believe in blood atonement and that blacks were cursed in the pre-existence, because they weren't righteous enough?"
Hey Bishop, "do you believe that quaker like people live on the moon?" "How about those people living on the sun?" Damn that must be hot!!
Hey Bishop, "are you against interracial marriages like Kimball and Packer and that Caucasians should only marry Caucasians, Mexicans marry Mexicans, etc?"
So, yeah, how do you think those type of conversations and questions would go down with the average ol'Bishop? I could go on and on and on.
I'm sure shortly after that meeting, the individual would be receiving an invitation to a "court of love."
That reminds me, the dumb ass "court of love" is another subject that I need to do a post on.
I met Wesley Walters for discussions when he was alive. I had ties into the fundamentalists too. They had access to more primary historical material in the 70's. None of this was a deal breaker for me.
Again, what does this have to do with anything that I'm discussing. Also, congrats on reaching your obviously very high level of cog dis!!
I'm glad that hanging out with "Wesley Walters and the fundamentalists who had access to more primary historical material in the 1970's" wasn't a deal breaker for you.
You sound like the perfect Cog Dis Morgbot/Professional Apologist. Did you ever get to work for FARMS by any chance? They'd love you and you could go hang out with Peterson and reminisce about the good old days.
Now, below is where you go into complete, "I'm an arrogant ass, holier than thou mode." You are basically attacking me personally and any body that wasn't "blessed" to have your knowledge, whenever you had it.
It's my guess that you didn't learn what you now know at an age much younger than many of us, just a hunch.
I mean, Joseph Smith was a polygamous, I didn't know that, waaaa.Brigham Young was too. Oh that was OK. I knew that.
So, now you are mocking me and anybody, that grew up in the f'd up Mormon Church, being lied to and deceived every single damn Sunday.
I would like to do a poll of all current members and I bet 90% or more, wouldn't know about Joseph's polygamy.
Most of those that knew of his polygamy, certainly wouldn't know of his polyandry, which included marrying other mens happily married, pregnant wives.
I'm sure that the majority that are aware of his polygamy, don't know the story of the angel with a flaming sword, marrying a 14 year old, a 16 year old, etc.
Wake up dude!! The majority of us haven't lived in or would want to live in your apparently blessed world of free flowing information and cog dis and complete denial after learning the truth.
The Church was bigoted. I didn't know that, waaaaa.
They still are bigots, you dumb ass. Are you for real?
Let's see, they are anti-gay, anti interracial marriages, say that Caucasians, should marry Caucasians, Mexicans should marry Mexicans, Arabs should marry Arabs, etc. Yo okay with that buddy? Apparently so!!
Masturbation leads to the gross sin of homosexuality, you are better off dead instead of immoral, etc. You okay with that stuff too? I'm sure you are!! Nothing bothers you, right?!!
Blacks were evil in the pre-existence and that's why they are black. Other races were unworthy, that's why they were born in the deep corner of Africa, or China, etc. You okay with this?
Now, let me tell you why I still have a big problem with all of this as does most everyone that I talk to but you; the Mormon Church has never, ever apologized or repudiated any of these teachings.
They have never admitted to these teachings being false, racist and bigoted. It is shameful and disgusting!!
The Mormon Church is a hate-filled, racist, bigoted, white supremacist organization that refuses to even say I'm sorry and you are disgusting as well, for defending these evil, hate-filled me. Shame on the Church and on you!!
The Church is changing history to make Joseph Smith a Saint. Geez, I didn't know that. Waaaaa.
Okay Elohim, or Jesus Christ, which do you prefer? I'm so glad that you noticed 20 years ago, that the Church is changing history and making Joseph a Saint.
Gee, maybe if I had been in my 30's, in the 80's, I might have known sooner too, ya think? Dumb ass!!
You really are an arrogant, sarcastic son of a bitch aren't you? What's with the waaaa....waaaa, anyway? You must think that we are all Neanderthals compared to you.
You think that we are all a bunch of dumb-asses, except for you? That your intelligence is so far above us that just discovered the truth? Go screw yourself to put it politely, although you deserve the stronger form of that.
I'm gonna stand up for myself and the majority of my readers and listeners that have put up with this bullshit for years and years in the Mormon Church. We left the Church after learning the truth and haven't missed the arrogant pricks like yourself that come with the Mormon package.
If your decision to move on is based on intellectual stuff, get over it.
Yeah, like you did, right? Just who the hell do you think you are anyway? I guess that I'm not, along with many others, as simple minded as you and not willing to just "move on" from the "intellectual stuff."
Besides, like I've previously mentioned, I actually give a damn about others and want to help them, unlike you. I'm also not an arrogant prick that only cares about number one.
The Catholic Church gets on just fine even with The Crusades, selling indulgences, the inquisition, etc. etc. Being in the Church isn't about knowing the mysteries it's about getting heartburn at the right time and having faith that the LDS Church is true.
It's hard for me to believe that you actually consider yourself to be intelligent, when you make so many ludicrous, ignorant statements. You sound like a complete ignoramus to me, what does everyone else think?
Your intellectual IQ just jumps off the page and it ain't looking too good to me.
Again, unbelievably, you say, "Being in the Church isn't about knowing the mysteries it's about getting heartburn at the right time and having faith that the LDS Church is true."
Are you speaking for yourself on that one or speaking in general. I know that is the protocol for the Mormon cult, but is sure sounds like you concur with your statement.
As long as you are happy I guess!! If you do indeed feel this way, then that would explain how you were able to do such "extensive" study, with the who's who of Mormon History studies, along with being one of the "300 original Families of Mormonism", and then just blow off all reality.
It makes more sense now when you put it like that. You need to buy something for that heartburn problem of yours. You can even buy Pepcid and take it before the heartburn even occurs, then you won't need Tums after the fact.
Anytime a Church ties their Gospel to actual events, there's going to be problems. So what. Every Church doing it is in the same boat. In many areas the LDS Church is more benign than a number of born again religions.
So what? You sound like Hinckley now, quoting him exactly, SO WHAT? I'm not talking about any other Churches and their problems, I'm talking about the Mormon Church and their specific problems, if you didn't notice.
Thank you for sharing the fact that 99% of us know, that "In many areas the LDS Church is more benign than a number of born again religions." Waaaa? That's fantastic!!
Maybe one day, it can be that way everywhere, with all of us Evil Antis out here, "not living our lives", and trying to help others to leave the evil death cult.
I traveled a lot; thought a lot; made some decisions, as did my wife. We left. Got happy and moved on.
WTF? So, after you defend the Mormon Church for 95% of your post, let us know over and over, how stupid we are and how special and knowledgeable you are about the Mormon Church and nothing made you leave, now you say, "we left." Is that kind of like "Jesus wept?"
Then you, "Got happy and moved on." So, help us to understand...you weren't happy? Wait, I thought you loved the mind numbing cult? How confusing!!
I guess it must be my "waaaa" stupidity that doesn't allow me to understand the obvious clarity of what you are saying, since you are such a well traveled, connected and intelligent human being? LOL!!
Find a happy place. Live there. Move on. Let other born again exMo's carry on a silly crusade.
Silly crusade? Is that what you call it? I think you are ridiculous and I have to wonder if you are even real, which I'm beginning to doubt.
You are probably just some "TBM Troll" yanking our chain. God, I hope you're not real anyway!! If you are real, it's pretty apparent that all of your years in the Mormon cult, have most definitely had a negative impact on your brain and thought patterns.
When you can go several months with no more thoughts about The Church than you would about the Catholic Church, you've arrived.
Damn, you are living in a fantasyland, aren't you? Why would I ever think of the Catholic Church, when I was a member of the Mormon cult for over 30 years, being lied to and deceived. It has had a dramatic impact in my life and my Families life.
I have many problems in my extended Family that are there everyday, due to pathetic Morgbots that would give their child to Hinckley for sex, if he asked for them, male or female. Hinckley is God on earth to them and can do no wrong. Joseph Smith is GOD++++.
These people that I speak of are the perfect example of what the Church hopes to create. They put the Church and all of its teachings, ahead of their own Family relations, even their own kids. It is very sad.
To be honest, these particular people in my family, don't even know about my apostasy and we do not communicate. They still think that I'm a die-hard member with a burning bosom.
I simply brought up Joseph Smith's polygamy(saying that it was okay, and commanded of God, on the Church's website-I was testing the waters)and they became furious and will not have anything to do with me now.
I'm now forbidden, for life, to ever see their children again, because I "cut down their religious beliefs."
One can only imagine if they knew the real truth about me and my downward spiral straight into hell and outerdarkness, to live for eternity with Satan and his minions.
Truth be known, they had never heard of Joseph Smith's Polygamy(WAAA) and I shocked them. They called me a liar and told me how much I had hurt them, their son and their Family.
That is who the Church hopes to create in the end, but it's okay, right? Nothing wrong with creating people that can't even function in society or culture outside of their religion, right?
One guy in my Family, currently has 4 callings in the ward and Stake and will never ever say no to "God's servant." Church first, Family second, that's the drill my friend. The Mormon cult drills that into everyone's head, over and over and over.
Find other hobbies.
Yes sir, I mean boss. Is that an order? And what if I don't? What are you gonna do about it? I have many hobbies and this happens to be one of them and at the top of my list. In reality, it's not a hobby, as I previously stated, it is a deep passion for me and comes from my heart.
Just stop reading my blog and listening to my podcasts and we'll both be fine. Just drink more wine and you'll feel better about things.
I find that joining a good wine tasting group helps. We never talk about the Church. Find friends with other hobbies that are not Churchy. Tell the family. If they can't handle it, it's not your problem. Eventally, things will work out. After 15 years my brother now lets me bring wine to dinners.
Well, first of all, I don't drink, because there were a lot of alcoholics in my Family, on both side and I'm not gonna risk it.
Although, I would like to see what I might write in a post or say on a podcast if I was drunk off my ass, that would be hilarious and scary....LOL!! I'm bad enough when I sober for hell's sake.
My Parents didn't drink long before the Church ever came around and that was just how I was raised.
I also have friends that are recovering alcoholics and I've seen first hand how destructive alcoholism can be.
I have no problems with people drinking responsibly, doing there thing, it just isn't for me.
If I wasn't afraid of possibly becoming an alcoholic, hell yes, why not, I'd drink.
People that drink alcohol, are not evil and bad people like the Church portrays. Maybe that's why the Church is going to allow alcohol to be served in their mall. After all, Joseph got wasted the night before his murder, had a bar in his house and Brigham opened up the first bar in Utah. So there you go!!
Anyway, in conclusion, Mr. Anonymous(all knowing), go waste your time somewhere else. Most of the people here, got out of the Church and enjoy not having to talk to, hang out with or read words from your type. You are still a brain-washed Morgbot!!
Whether you are in or out of the Church, you are really still in it mentally, so go back, bow your head and say yes and agree to give your life, that's were you apparently are the most happy.
I'm sure that you also enjoyed the throat, chest and stomach slitting. Do us a favor and don't try to justify it to us, okay. Move on and listen to some Pro-Mormon podcasts that will give you the heartburn that so yearn for.
I'm not sure if you intended your post to be offensive and arrogant or not, but then again, usually, very arrogant people, either don't realize how arrogant they are(due to their arrogance) or simply don't care.
I'm guessing that it was the latter that applies to you, but I could be wrong. (I doubt it though.)
Good luck out there in your "I'm still defending Mormonism, but I'm not a Mormon" world. Maybe I should put your name on the temple rolls, would that help?
If I took your comments all wrong, I do apologize, just not sure how else to take them, other than the way I did. I think you made your point very clear as did I.
I look forward to Mormon Truth readers and listeners, to comment on your comments, to see what they think.
Samuel the Utahnite
I really enjoyed your podcast Samuel, and I learned A LOT about another fine profit (intentional) of the cult.
Those bastards make me sick. They preach any damn thing that comes into their brains that they figure will sell.
Miracle of forgiveness? WTF? There is not one ounce of love or forgiveness taught in that p.o.s. book. But rather it is filled with hate, anger, derision, contempt, and judgement.
Rather have your child dead than lose their virginity? Once again, WTF???? It's that kind of b.s. that makes me furious at those old money grubbing men.
Samuel, I am 100% in agreement with you, and I love your podcasts. You are a straight shooter and back up your claims.
I was telling my TBM neighbor a bit about the facts you brought up. Her retort was that she did not care about what a dead prophet said, all she cared about was her realtionship with Jesus Christ.
Good hell, Mormons are good at blocking things.
Anyway, I can hardly wait for your podcasts. I have listened to each one 3 times. So, here's hoping you will make another one soon.
PS: Anon's post seems arrogant, mocking, and unkind. the ONLY thing he wrote that I agree with is about drinking wine.
PS: This is Bonnie. For some reason my password is not working. I just want you to know it is not from an anon.
I'm the dumbass anon above. Real name Rod. I just don't see a way to post with a name without getting a blog.
Samuel... Do you have any friends? Don't reply. I'm sure you do. You just haven't learned to function outside you anger. I would never say things to people in print I wouldn't say to their face. If this is how you talk to people that made no personal attacks on you in person. I feel very sorry for you.
If I just post anon and make comments, I'll be an ignorant asshole. If I say I know this stuff, I'm an asshole. If I do anything in my life but agree with your crusade, I'm an asshole.
I've found that living a happy life without anger and trying to help my fellow man allows me to do at least as much "good" as you do and I don't feel anger. I come into contact with lots of LDS people. Some have even seen the light after being around me and left the Church. I give much of my free time to non-profits like habitat for humanity and community outreach groups. It makes me happy and helps people. If you can only help people through your anger, you live a sad life.
Everyone needs a crusade. I'll support the disenfranchised and homeless. Everyone feels better at the end of my day. You keep working on yours. Hopefully those who leave the Church your way end up happy, rather than angry. I know those I've seen leave all ended up happy rather than angry.
I don't care if Joseph Smith and Brighan Young were butt buddies. People should leave the Church because they get shown there's a better way. Then, once gone, they show others a better way. Everyone ends up happy.
Anyway, Asshole out.
Rod here again.
One final comment. The purpose of all the "credential stuff" is to say the I've been part of the hard core original research and publish Church history group. Not the FARMS type apologists. It's entirely possible to know everything you know and far more without believing the Church can't be true. Hell, most of the stuff you bring up was written in Church publications designed to build faith. Now it's used to by modern antis to break the faith. Interesting. Much of my reasons for leaving the Church involve the positive role models I had from people outside the Church. Bitter people who try to prove the Church can't be true because of historical documents and conference talks never had anything to do with it. Nor shold they. Yea, your can call me an asshole for saying I know something. You can call me an asshole for every other thing I said you didn't agree with. But that doesn't make it true.
FWIW: You should go read the 3 volumes of the Reed Smoot hearings if you want to get some good fodder for future broadcasts. Especially where J F Smith says under oath he broke the laws of God on multiple occasions.
I said, at the end, "If I took your comments all wrong, I do apologize, just not sure how else to take them, other than the way I did. I think you made your point very clear as did I."
You don't see the arrogance from your original post, do you? The waaaa.....waaaa......waaaa.....yeah, that's arrogance and treating me like I'm a dumb-ass, so I gave you the same respect back.
You act as if you wrote a sparkling, kind post, telling me how nice I was and then I called you an asshole for no reason. You, are the lost cause, not me.
By the way, I may have referred to you as "dumb-ass", "arrogant ass" or "arrogant prick", but never asshole, just want to keep it real and accurate. I guess you called yourself an asshole.;0
Furthermore, I would say to you, in person, face to face, exactly what I said in my post, if you came across in the same arrogant manner, in person as you did in your post.
I am a straight-shooter, always have been and have no problem speaking my mind. I'm not the typical pussy, that is afraid to tell someone what's on my mind, in case you didn't notice.
Like I said, I could have you all wrong, but the words your wrote certainly seemed to send me in the direction that I went.
I get nice, respectful Emails from people all the time, that simply disagree with what I'm doing and guess what? My response back to them is respectful. I actually just got one tonight as a matter of fact. I answered them before I finished answering you.
If people take the time to write me, are decent and nice, respectful, I owe them the same courtesy.
You, sir, didn't earn that respect with your sarcastic, arrogant post. You didn't fall into the "decent, nice, respectful" category.
Truth is, you didn't even deserve a response, but I don't let people insinuate that I'm a dumb-ass and after all, it is my site and the people that support me, not yours.
Now, if you want to start an Anti-Samuel the Utahnite site, go for it!! That would be cool and then you could trash me everyday and critique each and ever post and podcast. It would be entertaining!!
Anyway, those people write me Emails, deserve my respect if they are respectful to me. I'm never gonna be a complete ass, to someone that is trying to be decent and respectful, which you weren't.
I'm not sure why I'm even wasting my time in responding to you, but I guess I felt the need to defend myself to your obvious personal attacks on me and my character and my "silly crusade."
If you hate what I'm doing so much and so strongly disagree with my tactics, anger, frustration, opinions and desire to help others, then just get the hell away. Go do something else with your time. Get thee hence, right?
Why are you wasting your time here, listening, reading and writing to someone that you think is a complete idiot and doesn't have your knowledge or credentials or any friends.
You most obviously feel the same way about anybody here that enjoys my blog and podcasts, right?
You wrongly and ridiculously must assume and think that I'm someone that just walks around yelling asshole at everyone, for no apparent reason.
You must think that my house is full of holes in the walls, right? I'm some kind of raving maniac, hell bent on destroying the world and lashing out at everyone, Mormon or not. I assure you, that isn't the case.
It would be like me spending hours and hours hanging out on Daniel C. Peterson's site, listening to his podcasts and then commenting about them, telling him he was wasting his time, it was silly crusade, get a new hobby, etc. I wouldn't waste my time, why are you wasting yours?
Now, as far as what I personally do, and what my Family does each month, to help the less fortunate; you have no idea. You don't know me and I never said that you don't do those things. Why would you wrongly assume that I must do nothing like that?
I'm glad that you help people too, that's wonderful, everyone that can, should be doing it. It is much more rewarding than paying my tithing to some Bishop and then never knowing where it went or who it helped, since he has to turn it into Salt Lake City each Monday.
Not having to pay tithing anymore certainly frees up a lot of extra money for my family to use however we want.
The nice part is, that if we want to help someone, we can just give the money directly to them and we know where it went and who it helped.
Also, they don't have to go the Church for help, while bowing down and kissing the Bishops ass, with tears in their eyes.
Then they don't have to lay out, in great detail, all of their finances(to be humbled) and then be told, "turn off your cable", "eat our shitty food", etc. It's a win win!!
Now, to your statement, "Hell, most of the stuff you bring up was written in Church publications designed to build faith."
That's BS my friend, plain and simple and leads me to believe that you don't know your stuff or understand things as well as you think you do.
I'm not going to go through the complete list of things again, and quotes, that you say were "designed to build faith."
If that's true, what you say, then why isn't the Church talking about "death on the spot", "better off dead, "blood atonement", "polyandry", etc, in General Conference."
Furthermore, these things weren't ever taught to "build faith", rather to give them power, control and instill fear in others.
I could explain in depth how each of the things above were taught in order to instill fear, but as you have made it very clear, you are very smart and knowledgeable, so figure it out. It's not hard.
What's amazing, is that my anger is directed toward the current and past Mormon Hierarchy for their lies, deceit and outright fraud, not you.
However, when you write a post, defending the Church at every turn, telling me to "get a new hobby" or to drop my "silly crusade", well, now my wrath includes you or anyone that wants to openly defend the evilness of the Mormon Hierarchy.
Anyone that can have the facts, deny them or be okay with them, is just as evil and vile as they are, in my opinion.
I'm sorry that my podcasts and blog so deeply offend you and make you feel the need to defend an organization that you no longer belong to.
The mystery here is why you care so damn much about what I say negatively about the Mormon Church, when you have already admitted that you have left it.
It's funny that you care more about what I have to say about Mormonism and how I express it, than you do the Mormon Church itself. What's up? Very interesting, isn't it?
Furthermore, why do you think, in all of your blatant arrogance, that your way of doing things, is the one and only way?
Waaa? Now we are getting somewhere. You have believed, for a good part of your life that you had the one and only truth, were going to be a God over your own worlds, with zillions of spirit babies and polygamous wives.
I think that "I'm the only one that knows the truth" feeling is hard to kick.
What's interesting, is that I'm doing my "silly crusade" the way that I feel is the right and best way for me.
There are others out there with different styles, ways and podcasts, that are quite different from me.
Guess what? I never attack them, EVER and I NEVER would. They have the right to do it their way and use their personality.
I not so arrogant as to say that I feel that my way is the only way, it's just the best way for me, personally and it has worked out quite well.
There may be those that are turned off by how I do things, and I'm fine with that. It's impossible to keep everybody happy all the time.
I just do things the way I do and if people don't like it, like yourself, they can tune out and go about there life and find somebody else that they like.
They can also start their own podcast, which I've helped a couple people to do. There is an audience for everyone.
I'm effective and help people and so are they. We are like one big family, each helping people in our own way. That's quite a contrast from your attitude toward me and my podcast.
It's like a buffet; everybody can listen to their choice of podcast. I'm not forcing anyone to tune me in, am I?
By the way, what are you currently doing to show people how it should be done. Do you have a podcast? Have you spent thousands of hours this year trying to help people?
Maybe you have, maybe you have a blog, a podcast, I don't know. If you do, direct me toward it, so that I can see what your "only right way" is.
In fact, share with us your extensive works, study and knowledge. Enlighten us stupid and uninformed people.
It would seem to be ashame, with all of your vast knowledge and experience, connections, etc, that you wouldn't share it with the world.
Bottom line is this; if you don't like what I'm doing, think I've got my head up my ass, then move on dude.
I'm not gonna waste much more time responding to people like yourself, when I have much more important things to be doing and people that need my help.
I'm glad that most of what I say is nothing new for you, but it is and was for most of us, due to the deep deceit and cover-up that goes on in every General Conference, Priesthood and Sunday School class.
So let us do our thing and you do yours, okay? We have no fight with you, rather you started the fight with us.
I didn't seek you out to tell you that I thought you were an arrogant dumb-ass, you came to me and exposed yourself with your original post.
Now, if you want to hang around and learn a thing or two about us anti-Mormons, you are welcome to do so. Just don't get pissed at me, because I don't think like you do.
Did you actually think that you could tell me to "get a new hobby" and stop my "silly crusade" and I would just go away? REALLY?
Then you start to get personal when you ask, "Do have any friends?"
Well, none as ignorant or arrogant as you, that's for sure, thankfully.
I've had friends like that in my life and I moved on. I try to avoid and ignore people that are only trying to discourage me, like you.
I'm actually one of the nicest guys in the world. I'm a loving, caring, compassionate guy, thanks to my Parents, who are the same way.
I love my Family and friends and I don't need to brag about the good things I do on a regular basis in order to feel like a big man.
I served a mission for two years in Argentina and for me it wasn't just about "numbers" like the Mormon Hierarchy wanted and the majority of missionaries. I was never like the rest and never will be.
I sincerely helped people, broke the rules on occasion, in order to do what was morally right, even though it was strictly forbidden.
For example, we were supposed to watch people in utter poverty, literally starve to death, without helping them with food. Is that Christ-like? More important was to dunk them in water and call them a Mormon. Who needs food, right?
Not to mention that the Mormon Church in South America doesn't even have a welfare program to help these people.
They can drop billions on malls and construction projects, but can't help these poor folks in South/Central America and many other places.
Then on top of that, they forbid missionaries to help them. That sounds like exactly what Jesus would do, doesn't it? I'm sure the Mormon God/Jesus/Adam will condemn me for breaking that rule, right?
Remember now, 100% obedience or you lose your blessings and won't find the elect of God. What a bunch of BS, but I'm sure that you are fine with that too.
I left most of my clothes and things, with less fortunate people that I loved with all of my heart. They cried and thanked me for simple things like a sweatshirt or white dress shirt.
The Mormon Church does nothing for these people except condemn them if they don't pay their tithing and tell them that they can't go to the temple, have Eternal life or be sealed to their Family. What a travesty!!
Hard to believe that you don't give a shit about any of this. Like I said, this place obviously isn't for you then and you should move on. The people here care about these things and have compassion, you don't.
When I was in Argentina, I was more concerned with the extreme poverty and people's awful living conditions and eating, than I ever was about dumb ass discussions and baptismal numbers.
My only regret was that I couldn't do more and someday soon, I'm gonna make up for that too.
Needless to say, that didn't help me with my leaders or Mission President. I was labeled as a "rebel", "disobedient" in their eyes.
I was blacklisted for the last year of my mission, for once again, standing up for myself, my beliefs and defending my honor and integrity and doing what was right. Sounds kind of like right now, doesn't it?
I find it interesting that you want to make this more and more personal by asking, "if I have any friends", insinuating that you are much better than me each day and the world is better because of what YOU do.
You arrogantly assume that I must not do anything close to what you do? You assume that I can't be happy trashing the Mormon Church and helping people in the process?
Just who the hell do you think you are, Jesus Christ himself?
Before you start attacking me as a person, and what I may or may not do for others, whether I have any friends or not, maybe you should know who I am first? Ya think? Waaa?
However, when I or my Family and Friends, have been wronged, I will defend myself and my Family and Friends, with everything I've got.
I always assume that someone is good, until proved otherwise. I can be your best friend or your worst enemy, that's up to each person to decide.
I would like to be everyone's friend but unfortunately, that isn't possible in this world and that's just life.
I've been good friends with people that then tried to take advantage of my good nature, screw me over and make up lies about me or my Family, to further their own agenda, etc. I won't stand for that, ever!!
So yeah, suddenly, Mr. nice guy, became Mr. Asshole and they felt my wrath and couldn't believe that I wasn't Mr. Niceguy anymore.
That's the way it works!!
They are always shocked that this nice guy went into attack mode. What really helps, is when you haven't done anything wrong and have the truth on your side. Not always, but many times, the truth wins in the end.
Don't cross me or my Family or you will see a different side of me that you wished you hadn't. It will be better that you had never known me and you will wish you hadn't.
That is where the Church currently finds themselves. After a life of dedication and service, plus 10% of my money, I'm gonna tear them down, brick by brick, for the rest of my life. I want to expose their fraud, lies and abuse to the world.
Nobody but me and my immediate Family, know what my future plans include. What I'm doing now is just the beginning of the next 50 years and when I'm gone, I will have replacements already lined up to pick up where I left off.
What I'm doing now and what I've done, will never go away and will never stop. The number of people like myself, will just continue to grow and grow and I say, the more the merrier.
My main goal, while I do bring down and expose the Mormon Church brick by brick, to as many people as I can, is to help as many people as I can along the way with their pain and frustrations.
Everything has a starting point and has to begin somewhere. Look at how many people the Tanners have helped and the majority of their time was without the Internet.
Imagine the next 50 years with the Internet. The Mormon Hierarchy can't run and hide forever. The Mormon Hierarchy, are aware of all of us and know what we are writing, saying and doing.
Some of the recent Emails I've had and people reading my blog and others, confirm this to be true. They are paying attention and we are putting them in a corner, little by little and it will only get worse for them.
It seems to me that your anger, frustration or displeasure with me or what I'm doing, needs to be redirected where it belongs, against the Mormon Hierarchy.
They are the ones causing suicides, depression and destruction of families and individuals, with their awful, hate-filled, bigoted, racist teachings, in the damn Mormon cult, masquerading as a Church.
Now, I have a proposal for you Rod; how about you go your way I'll go mine? Sound good?
It's obvious that there is very little middle ground between us and very little chance that we are going to have a meeting of the minds.
So, let's quit wasting each others time and just move on. I'm not gonna stop what I'm doing, change who I am or my style, anymore than you will ever agree with it or like it. So get over it and move forward.
I'm glad that you help others, have found your way to be happy in your life, but your way is not everybody else's way or the only way.
I've found many things that make me happy and helping a lot of people with my podcasts and blog, just happens to be one of them.
My positive Emails and comments outnumber the negative ones by at least 10-1. That is all I need, to know that I am indeed helping people and going in the right direction.
Now another thing, you said, "People should leave the Church because they get shown there's a better way. Then, once gone, they show others a better way."
People should leave the Mormon Church when they discover it to be a complete fraud and a cult. That is the better way!!
Any life outside of an evil cult, is better than the life in the evil cult, even though they may not know it.
People that are currently in the cult and brainwashed, may not even realize it, some don't even care.
Some people need a cult like the Mormon Church, to feel important or for their social structure and can't live outside of it, especially in Utah.
Someday, if they have a question or are wondering about something, that's where I come in or many others, that want to help them out of the cult.
That is the better way, cult free. Then they can pay it forward and help others, hopefully loved ones to become free of the cult.
People don't need to know, in advance, before leaving the Mormon Church what there new beliefs will be, that isn't even realistic.
What people choose to believe about God and Jesus, the afterlife, etc, after leaving Mormonism, is a personal journey that is up to each individual.
It's not something that they plan in advance, they figure it out after the fact.
Most people, like myself, didn't plan on discovering that the Mormon Church was a fraud, never dreamed that it was, therefore, it was a little difficult to plan in advance what my new beliefs would be if I ever discovered the Mormon Church to be false. Make sense?
Now, I'll close with my favorite quote from both of your posts that tell us exactly where you are coming from. This is what you said before the last quote that I just stated as people can go read.
You said, "I don't care if Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were BUTT BUDDIES."
Fantastic dude!! Awesome!! I'm glad that you wouldn't care if Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were Butt buddies. LOL!!
I'm sure that a few people out there, might feel differently(Packer/Hinckley), considering the Church's staunch anti-gay position and the millions they've spent to fight the gay marriage amendments in Hawaii and California.
Do you know something that we don't about this? Would you like to enlighten us with your all powerful knowledge experience? I would do a big post and give you all the credit if you can back this one up. LOL!!
We could do the talk show circuit together. Sound like fun?
Do you really think that a piece of news like that wouldn't rock the Church to the core?
It's very revealing that you could also dismiss something as outrageous and scandalous as that would be.
It speaks volumes of your thought processes, even though I know you said it tongue in cheek.
Just the fact that it wouldn't bother you as a member or affect your testimony, is well, like I said, very revealing and I can see why nothing that you ever studied or learned, bothered you.
Also, if you do decide to respond to this post, at least address and give us your logical answers to all of the questions that I've brought up in these posts.
Just tackle a few of them if your up to it. I'm sure that everyone here would love for you to enlighten us with your very deep insights, knowledge and experience.
Quit bragging about your background and share it with us. Also, why did you leave the Mormon Church if it is so wonderful? Was it because of sin? Just joking, trying to be a TBM...LOL!!
Take care, good luck and Merry Christmas, I mean Smithmas..LOL!!
Samuel the Utahnite
I enjoy your podcasts. In fact, you helped me decide to publish my own Mormon-related podcast (Mormon Musings) and you even gave me pointers on how to do it. Thanks for that!
I understand your anger toward the church. I've certainly felt that at times over the course of my recovery from Mormonism. We're going at things from different agles in our respective podcasts but I think that's great because people are looking for different things when they search the word Mormon on iTunes.
At the same time, I believe I can understand what Rod means when he says that he hopes that one day you can view the Mormonism with the same level of disinterest that you view Catholicism. I, for one, hope I get to that point because it will mean that I will have moved past the pain and embarassment I feel at having spent 35 years of my life believing and encouraging others to believe things that aren't true.
In this last podcast, you specifically asked for feedback and so I'm giving it: I think at least some TBMs will immediately discount your remarks because of perceived bitterness. I'll quickly add that your approach is just as valid as anyone else's though.
Keep them coming... I have certainly enjoyed listening to them. In fact, at some point I'd like to have you as a guest on the Mormon Musings podcast because we want to address the topic of "why can't they leave it alone?" and you would be a great person to talk to. If you're interested, let me know and I'll send you an email offline.
Samuel,
There is a book out there called "Kingdom of The Cults" by Walter Martin. There is an entire chapter just on the Mormon Church. It would blow you away by what it uncovers about the LDS church. There are topics in this book that I have never seen anyone publish on any website. Facts that are mind blowing as to how untrue the church is!!! It covers everything...the author has definitly done his homework. Keep up the good work!! Your site is great!!!
Have enjoyed listening to all the podcasts...where is no. #7?? Looking forward to it.
John
I am so sad for you. You are abviously very lost, and troubled. I can see why the prophets have commented about the people who FALL AWAY from the church are the ones who are serving the Adversary. I've always thought that was an interesting comment, but not once did I realize how true it was until I read your blog. You have once again proven that those who fall away, are adamantly working with the Adversary's to fulfill his desire to make people un-happy, whether you believe that, or not! I do hope in future you become a happier person.
I am so sad for you. You are obviously very lost, and troubled. I can see why the prophets have commented about the people who FALL AWAY from the church are the ones who are serving the Adversary. I've always thought that was an interesting comment, but not once did I realize how true it was until I read your blog. You have once again proven that those who fall away, are adamantly working with the Adversary's to fulfill his desire to make people un-happy, whether you believe that, or not! I do hope in future you become a happier person.
ANON/TBM/BRAINWASHED CULT MEMBER,
You are sad for Me? You are the one that believes in and is a member of a cult, that used to kill non-believers or sinners. In my lifetime, they used to make us promise to kill ourselves or be killed, before telling anyone their secrets.
You are the one that belongs to a cult that once asked me or made me commit to slicing open my neck, chest and stomach, before revealing, "the secrets" of the temple. You feel sorry for me?
I feel very sorry for you and anyone else that believes this evil bullshit.You have been brainwashed, just as I was and it's never to late to wake up, realize it and get out of the cult and have your freedom.
Have you ever sat with your friends and family, in the Mormon temple, while you all bowed your head and said yes, while agreeing to kill yourself or be killed? Well I did!!
You can deny it all you want or pretend that it never really happened, but it did. What year did you go through "Joe's house of horrors?"
The reason that Prophets and Apostles have made comments about people who leave the Church becoming servants of Satan; is because they know it is BS and that people, smart people that is, with one iota of common sense or intelligence, will figure it out if given the chance to hear it.
They also count on TBMs like yourself, to believe their pack of lies and fraud, hook line and sinker, just like you do, and stay away from such evil, awful people like Ex-Mormons. They love people like you, that hang on their every word.
You are the perfect TBM!! Mormon God forbid if you actually learned the truth from us evil son's of perdition, right? It's scary isn't it?
By the way, I'm happier now than I've ever been in my life, now that I've escaped the clutches of the Mormon cult.
I write my blogs and record my podcasts, to make others aware of what I've found, so that they too, can know the truth and have their freedom, if they want it.
If you, ANON TBM, are so holier than thou, and a die-hard, true believing Mormon; what the hell are you doing reading a website that has been written by somebody who works directly for the Mormon Satan?
I think maybe you need to go and confess to your Bishop and clear your conscience. When you talk to him, be sure to give him the links to my sites, so that maybe I can also help him to know the truth.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, here's a site where you can go see the changes that happened from the pre-1990 temple ceremony, to the current one.
http://www.lds-temple.org/compare.htm
Also, here is a post that I wrote, that would also be very helpful to you, since you love to read my site so much. Come on now...no fear, click it..you know you want to.
http://mormontruth.blogspot.com/2005/09/mormon-temple-changes-and-how-evil-and.html
One more question ANON; Were the words, "Rather than do so I would suffer my life to be taken", part of the penalty phase of the pre-1990 temple ceremony or not?
How about this paragraph, if your TBM eyes will allow you to even read such secret things, that can only be revealed in your temple:
The execution of the Penalty is represented by placing the thumb under the left ear, the palm of the hand down, and by drawing the thumb quickly across the throat to the right ear, and dropping the hand to the side.
I will now explain the covenant and obligation of secrecy which are associated with this token, its name, and sign and penalty, and which you will be required to take upon yourselves.
If I were receiving my own Endowment today, and had been given the name of "John" as my New Name, I would repeat in my mind these words, after making the sign at the same time representing the execution of the penalty:
I, John, covenant before God, angels and these witnesses that I will never reveal the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, and sign, and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken.
So, is this made up or real? I look forward to your response. It appears to me that you are in desperate need of researching what your so called Church has taught and believed since 1830.
If you need any help, please let me know...as I have thousands of articles and links saved now that would be very helpful to you.
Most of all, I would like to know why a picture of Barbi, accurately portraying the pre-1990 ceremony, is so offensive to you, while what actually went on in the temple and what people had to promise and act out, doesn't offend you at all.
Do you actually believe the blood oaths were sacred and from God? If they were so damn sacred, then why were they removed? I and I'm sure everybody else here, will look forward to your response.
from hell with love and flames,
Samuel the Utahnite(AKA SATAN)
Hey Samuel, loved the show. It made me want to vomit once I realized all the implications of these policies. It's especially sickening here in the Rocky Mountain states where so many people are LDS. All the poor kids here are taught that they are so special and it's the Christians who commit all these sins/"sins". Because of that, they fear talking to people about the issues plaguing them (thinking that they are alone in having these problems/”problems”) and they suffer in silence, or they go to drugs, alcohol, suicide, to take away their pain (or so they think).
I'm glad I see the truth for what it is. I don't know how I could survive otherwise. I suppose that according to Kimball and all these other men of God, I'm damned to hell anyway just by being attracted to other men, so does that mean that I may as well enjoy sex as often as I can with as many people as I can, right??? Or maybe I should commit suicide before I can lose my chastity? Hmm, I can't be sure if my sin is my orientation or the potential actions which might hint at it. See, it sounds like I may have lost my chastity because I'm a homosexual, but then again, you never know. If that's the case then I guess I kind of have an advantage over my TBM peers who have to struggle with not having erotic thoughts of any kind, because unlike them, I didn't lose my chastity by choice!! Haha, I wonder what the Lord's position is on THAT one. LOL Anyway, I love your podcasts, keep them up. I like the NOTtrue podcast because they dig up history and junk, but it's cool how you tend to focus on exposing the evils of modern Mormonism. Plus I like your personality and candidness. Well, I’m out.
Best,
Zelph
Honestly...these teachings are wrong. There is not a word strong enough to describe how utterly evil these people and what they spout are wrong.
If I had my way the church would be held accountable for each and every death in which reasonable doubt could be reached that said teachings contributed greatly to a death.
In additional news, this year or the next I will be starting my law degree. Such evil cannot remain in this world unpunished.
I wonder if you can guess half my reason for wanting to law so badly?
That's right.
Honestly, this is just sickening.
I used to be a mormon, but quit when I was still young. I am so grateful that I did while I still had the chance.
As someone with...numerous "problems" that the church would have laid guilt on me for...
I am honestly surprised about a few things. That I left, that I had the sense and willpower to leave and that I didnt end up dead as so many apparently do in Utah. The home of Jesus!
Jesus must weep blood. Tears of Blood.
If he does exist by some miracle...some freak of nature, then he has a lot to account for.
As it is, the church should be sued to bankruptcy, it's name dragged through the mud. It's temples burned and sodomized.
It's the very least we can do to the lives that this cult (I like that term. Cult) has done to so many innocent lives.
Thank you, thank you for spreading the word.
Thanks to you and such other inspirations, a lot more people are saved from these horrors.
Keep up the good work, please.
Oh, and as a side note, I love the podcasts. Nice, easy and honest.
You are truly the missionary of truth.
Considered going on a mission again?
If you came to Austrlia, where I reside, I would offer you hospitality and friendship on your mission! :)
Thanks once again.
Your blog, your ideals and thoughts are helping me even now.
As I am trying to wrest my parents away from this evil.
You are doing an amazingly good thing here. No matter what mormon cultists may say, this is the truth!
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