Tuesday, April 18, 2006

Mormon Truth Podcast #15-An Interview With Jared, A Mormon Apologist-Part 2

MP3 File

Okay guys and gals, this is part 2 out of 4, of the interview that Eric(Living Truth Podcast) and I did with Jared, who is a Mormon Apologist. Jared is also a great guy who strongly believes in his faith and can usually find an explanation for most anything.

I do give Jared credit though, for coming on the show with us and at least being able to admit some of the faults that are in the Church; but then, unfortunately, he has to explain them away and tell us why they are okay, or don't impact his overall testimony. Jared is a very nice friendly guy, but we do have to agree to disagree on about every subject.

In Part 2, we pick up where we left off in part 1, continuing our discussion of "The Book of Mormon" and the lack of any evidence whatsoever of "The Book of Mormon", the people, their cities, etc. Jared likes to point out the errors and discrepancies in the Bible, in order to justify the errors and problems in the Book of Mormon and Mormonism in general.

Jared admits that it doesn't matter if they ever find any archaeological evidence of The Book of Mormon and that it wouldn't affect his testimony one way or the other. I say that if you have to claim the Bible to be so wrong, in order to justify that Mormonism and The Book of Mormon are okay with so many screwed up things and errors, why would your wrong be right?

Jared likes to refer to current and past teachings of Apostles and Prophets, as "statements, opinions, traditions, their personal beliefs, or whatever", but that it doesn't mean that it's truth. I honestly have no idea how Jared, or most apologists, determine what Mormon doctrine is or isn't, due to the fact that nobody ever really knows when these so called Prophets and Apostles are speaking for God, or just sharing their personal opinion. In my opinion, it's ridiculous!!

At one point, both Jared and I are astounded at each others views and express that to each other. There is much more to this part 2 and I really hope that you guys enjoy this episode, as much as we did making it for you.

Also, I will be putting out parts 3 and 4 later on today, so that everyone can hear how the rest of this interview went.

Also, here is the link I promised at the beginning of the podcast, with the quotes about not being able to get into heaven, without believing in Joseph Smith.

Here is the link to the post I did, that was a tribute to the "Joseph Smith Nativity Scene" down at BYU, this past Christmas.

Also, one more link, while we are on the subject, is my "Merry Smithmas(Christmas) tribute" to Joseph Smith, with some more POWERFUL, BOSOM BURNING pictures of the "Joseph Smith Nativity Scene." It even includes the Moroni, birds-eye view of the plastic baby Joseph Smith and it's just amazing.

Thanks again everyone for all of your support and please leave comments on what you think of this podcast. Also, if you haven't taken a minute or two and added yourself to my frapper map, please do so, as I would love to know where all you guys are located.

Samuel the Utahnite


At April 19, 2006 8:34 AM, Blogger Chris said...

Hi Samuel,
quite interesting podcast.
It had quite many different topics, and the three sides of opinions came out very clear.

Yes, three sides:
-Jared pointed out clearly that Mormonism is based purely on faith, not on archaeological evidence.
He, however made it also clear that not all parts of the Bible are archaeologically proven, therefore using the same method would also lead to the rejection of these parts, which contain such important things as the Books of Mose, etc.

-Your part in the story was mainly to reject Mormonism by pointing out how ridiculously thin the amount of evidence for mormonism is (two stick theory, that's about all).

- Eric plays a different role. While on of his aims is to rebuke Mormonism as well, on the other hand he wants to draw people to his own church, by pointing out the Bible's superiority. In some parts, you buy into these arguments as well, talking about how archaeologically proven the bible is.

I would suggest that you should be more careful in using "alliances" with people who have different goals. While your goal is to get people out of the cult, Erics aim is to get them into his.

As he made clear in many of his statements (listen to it again), it is important to "have the correct view of who God is", or,to put it in other words, you will GO TO HELL FOREVER, if you don't buy the trinitarian stuff Constantine voted for in the early Councils.
Only if you accept the other cults doctrines, believe in the superiority of the bible which is archaeologically disproven in many areas, such as the amount of people fleeing from Egypt, the historicity of the Book of Josua, etc, only then can you be saved by the grace of the trinitarian Holy-Spirit-Jesus-God-Jesus, whose son/who himself died on the cross for the sins of all trinitarian Christians (except catholics, they worship Mary).

Praise to Constantine.

At April 19, 2006 10:33 PM, Blogger Kolage said...

Oh I love comments like the one from Chris Schmidt...yes beware of my cult!! I thought a cult was a group of people revolved around one person who claims to have NEW revelation which is in harmony with the Bible. This does not sound like my church at all. Anyway...I think we should invite this guy on the show and do an interview with him...I think he surfed enough internet waves and has not actually read the Bible front to back and does not understands the hebrew transalation to prepare himself with the classic dance of atheism. God Bless bro!!

At April 21, 2006 12:40 AM, Blogger OdieBytes said...

I hated listening to Jared. It was not a fun podcast for me to listen to because of how Jared painfully twists and turns and tries to make sense out of the insane.

I got pretty irritable listening to the podcast...well every time Jared spoke I cringed. I loved Samuel and Eric's comments. They were the saving grace of the podcast.

I thought it was nice of Eric and Samuel to give Jared his time in the sun, but the thought of having him back as a regular guest is sickening.

Let him do his own apologetic podcast for those who like that crap. I for one, find apologetics BORING!!

My vote goes to the stories, ideas, rationale, and humor of Samuel and Eric.

Jared, get a life. and go get your own podcast. I do not plan to listen to you again.

At April 21, 2006 6:13 PM, Blogger Chris said...

Hi Sam,(Hi Eric),
interesting reply of Eric to my posting.

When I listen to your podcast, I have the impression that what you criticize most about the LDS church is their psychological abuse of its members by inducing guilt, by controlling their behaviour and environment.
So cult is defined as "social abusing".

"I thought a cult was a group of people revolved around one person who claims to have NEW revelation which is in harmony with the Bible."
is a totally different definition.
Eric does not care about the negative influence the church has on its members, what he bothers about is that the LDS church teaching is different to the teaching of his "one and only church, the only church which leads to ultimate salvation and happiness".
Cult is defined as "deviant from my church".

"I think we should invite this guy on the show and do an interview with him..." There are far better experts on the history of the bible than me.

"I think he ... has not actually read the Bible front to back and does not understands the hebrew transalation..."
This is an interesting accusation.

In the LDS church, when someone is deviant, people assume that "he must have sinned, because he doesn't believe anymore." The LDS ideology stresses moral behaviour("moral" according to their definition), so when someone does not believe in the church anymore, they search for faults in that area.
Most evangelical christians (over?)stress the importance of the bible. Therefore, when someone does not believe in Christianity, he "cannot possibly have read the bible, because if he had, he would believe in our teaching".
Therefore, Eric follows the same "cultist" behaviour pattern the LDS church performs, only the details are different, they are adapted to his "cult".

(Of course, the word cult is an exaggeration for Eric's church. He probably doesn't wear sacred underwear or things like that. But abusing the situation of people who are part of the lds cult to draw them to his church is in my opinion socially abuse of needy persons as well.
It reminds me of the anti-drug campaign of Scientology. You get clean from drugs, but into their psycho-cult. What a progress...)

Greets anyway,
fortunately there is no Easter here in the east.

At April 23, 2006 1:22 AM, Blogger OdieBytes said...

I do not agree with CS about alliances with Eric.

Eric does not want to get people into another cult.

Listen to Samuel's podcast on the definition of a cult. Eric is calling people to Christ, not to some cult.

Of course, if you are not Christian, then you may view Christianity is a cult, in which case your comments make sense.

At April 26, 2006 5:00 AM, Blogger Samuel the Utahnite said...

I just wanted everyone to know that I've had some serious technical issues with Ourmedia, thus the delay; but after much research and patience, it will all be resolved today.

I'm really sorry for the long wait for parts 3 and 4, of the interview with Jared, but they will both be out later today and you will love them I promise.(Bonnie, you've already heard them, but you can just listen to my remarks at the beginning and the end if you want to).

I even have some "after the show bonus audio" that was great!! We talked about this and that and we spoke candidly about several things and subjects.

Anyway, I appreciate everyone hanging in there with me, while I straightened this out, but you will be rewarded as I have a lot of great podcasts ready to roll, I just needed to resolve my audio host problems, which I hope to have done forever.

One other suggestion for everyone; when I move everything over to my new host, all of my podcasts will be a higher, better quality, so if you want to delete all my podcasts and re-download them again, they will be much better, I promise.

I have always been limited by size at Ourmedia, thus limiting greatly, the quality of my podcasts, especially the longer ones. Talk to you all soon!!

Best wishes everyone,


Also, Christoph Schmidt, I'll respond to your remarks later today, don't worry, I haven't forgotten you!!

At April 27, 2006 6:46 AM, Blogger Samuel the Utahnite said...

Hey guys, sorry that I didn't get those 2 podcasts out yesterday, I'm still trying to figure out, for sure, which place I'm going to use as my host. I'm trying to find a permanent solution, not a short-term solution and there are a lot of possibilities.

I simply don't want my podcast service interrupted again, so that all runs smoothly for all of you out there that are my supporters and listeners.

It sure would be nice if companies gave a damn about their new, potential or future customers, which obviously they don't. What I thought was a 2-3 day project, has taken 2 weeks, due to the lack of response to the questions I've emailed these clowns.

Anyway guys, just give me through today and I should, I hope and pray, have it all worked out. Also, Christoph, I will respond to you when I have more time. Thanks again everyone for your patience.

I have parts 3 and 4 of the Jared interview done; now I just a place to upload them to and we'll be set. I also have so much more that I want to do, so you can look forward to the next week or so, as I'll try to make up for this down time, I promise!!


At April 27, 2006 1:28 PM, Blogger Genetic 404 said...

I just finished this podcast this morning. I found this one much more difficult to listen to than the one that came before it - I found myself irritable. Maybe it's just my flashbacks to having to listen to people explain away obvious flaws without making sense. Just thought I'd drop my two cents. Good luck with the host search Samuel, I know you've got your hands full :)

At April 29, 2006 9:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Samuel, I noticed Billsjane's comment on your frapper map. I thought this might be a better place to respond so I wouldn't have to give out where I live. What a crazy!!

Billsjane, who really cares about American religion statistics. Traditional Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddism, Judaism, Sikhism, Juche, other Eastern Religions, and maybe even the Baha'i faith blow Mormonism out of the water in terms of numbers on the world stage.

There are 6.5 Billion people on the planet, Mormons account for 0.18% of the world. Or in other words, 99.82% of the world knows to not get involved with Mormonism.

Also, it's PS, PPS, PPPS, etc. Not PS, PSS, PSSS.

At April 30, 2006 7:03 AM, Blogger Samuel the Utahnite said...

Hey, thanks Anon for pointing that out...and you are right on the money!! I've made that point to a lot of people, that if Mormonism was God's "only true and living church", that it sure is strange that nobody wants to join.

I mean using the stats you used, of .18%,less than one quarter of one percent of the world is a member of God's only true Church?

Now that's downright embarrassing and pretty arrogant, to make such statements, when, according to the world in general, you are like a pebble in the ocean.

I've also made the statement, that if there was really "one true Church or religion", which I don't believe at all, that it would have to be the Catholicism, which is the main religion of Christianity or Islam. Here is an example below of some of the Catholic membership by country.

The Top 10 Nations with Most Catholics:

Nation-Percent-Number of baptized

Brazil 86.50% 134,818,000
Mexico 95.30 86,305,000
USA 26.00 ~61,000,000
Philippines 83.60 58,735,000
Italy 97.20% 55,599,000
France 82.10 47,773,000
Spain 94.20 36,956,000
Poland 95.40 36,835,000
Colombia 91.90 32,260,000
Argentina 90.70 31,546,000
Germany 34.80 28,403,000

Source: 1998 Catholic Almanac: Our Sunday Visitor: USA (1997), pg. 333-367. Except U.S. figures, which are from general sources.

Using this chart, Germany and Argentina, just in their country alone, both have almost 3 times the amount of Mormons that exist in the whole world. This is the only true Church? Give me break!!

Here is a list of the Top 10 predominate countries, with the largest National Muslim Populations:

Country-Number of Muslims

Indonesia 170,310,000
Pakistan 136,000,000
Bangladesh 106,050,000
India 103,000,000
Turkey 62,410,000
Iran 60,790,000
Egypt 53,730,000
Nigeria 47,720,000
China 37,108,000

Furthermore, if we consider the real number of active Mormons,or people out of the 12,750,000, that actually consider themselves to be a Mormon, according to the latest census reports, it is only about 3,000,000 or so.

So, if we say that only 3,000,000 Mormons are even active or consider themselves to be Mormon, that would drop the percentage of .18% down to .045%.

So, there you have it BillsJane, you nutjob, and all you other TBM Apologists; out of the entire worlds population, 99.96% of the people want nothing and have nothing to do with Mormonism.

This is despite the 50,000 + missionaries that are out there 365 days a year, including Christmas, Easter and every other holiday, telling people that they believe in an abomination and the only path to God is through Mormonism.

Wow, now that's really something for the Mormons to brag about isn't it,? At least Catholics can brag that they are about 10% of the worlds population, instead of .045%....which is just pathetic and pretty embarrassing!!

Just to further show how insignificant Mormonism is, in the big scheme of things, there is a religion called, "Sikhism"; most members live in India alone, and they have about 23 million members, according to the latest reports by Barrett's.

So, yes, even "Sikhism" is double Mormonism and who has heard of "Sikhism?" I wonder how many missionaries they send out to the world? Probably none!!

Now with all of this being said, the Mormon Church is an evil cult that still affects millions of people, and destroys many families and lives. That is why I do what I do and will keep doing it until I'm like 90 or something and not physically or mentally able.

Here is a current list of different religions and how many members they have, so that we can put in perspective, where Mormons rank:

Religious Body Number of Adherents
Catholic Church** 1,100,000,000
Sunni Islam* 1,000,000,000
Eastern Orthodox Church* 225,000,000
Jinja Honcho* 83,000,000
Anglican Communion* 76,000,000
Assemblies of God* 50,000,000
Ethiopian Orthodox Church 35,000,000
Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland (EKD)* 27,400,000
Iglesia ni Cristo (based in the Philippines) 27,000,000
Sikhism 23,000,000
Juche (North Korea) 19,000,000
Seventh-day Adventist Church 16,811,519
Southern Baptist Convention* 16,000,000
Jehovah's Witnesses** 15,597,746
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 12,275,822
United Methodist Church* 11,708,887
Soka Gakkai 11,000,000
New Apostolic Church 10,260,000
Ahmadiyya * 10,000,000
Veerashaivas (Lingayats) 10,000,000
Coptic Orthodox 10,000,000
Sathya Sai Baba 10,000,000
Church of Uganda 8,000,000
Choge Buddhism 8,000,000
Church of Sweden 7,143,292
Church of God in Christ 6,500,000
Kimbanguist Church 6,500,000
Bahai World Faith 6,000,000
Universal Church of the Kingdom of God
(Igreja Universal do Reino de Deus) 6,000,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America 5,500,000
China Christian Council 5,000,000
Rissho Koseikai 5,000,000
Swaminarayanism 5,000,000
Aglipayan Church 4,500,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland 4,400,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Denmark 4,350,000
Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee) 4,000,000
Kale Heywet (SIM, Ethiopia) 4,000,000
Church of Norway (Evangelical Lutheran) 3,850,000
Church of South India 3,800,000
Armenian Apostolic Church 3,500,000
Christian Congregation (Brazil) 3,120,000
National Baptist Convention of America 3,106,000
"God is Love" Pentecostal Church (Igreja Pentecostal "Deus e Amo") 3,000,000
Zion Christian Church (South Africa) 3,000,000
Cao Dai 3,000,000
Ch'ondogyo 3,000,000
Church of the Lord Aladura 3,000,000
Reiyukai 3,000,000
United Church of Canada 3,000,000
International Church of the Foursquare Gospel 2,863,232
Balinese Hinduism 2,800,000
Christian and Missionary Alliance 2,644,296
Netherlands Reformed Church (NHK) 2,600,000
Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod 2,582,440
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) 2,560,201
Protestant Christian Batak Church
(Huria Kristen Batak Protestan -- HKBP, Indonesia) 2,500,000
Evangelical Churches of West Africa 2,500,000
Progressive National Baptist Convention 2,500,000
Tenrikyo 2,350,000
United Pentecostal Church International 2,300,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Tanzania 2,200,000
Presbyterian Church of Korea (Haptong) 2,094,338
Africa Inland Church (Kenya) 2,000,000
Brazil for Christ 2,000,000
Churches of Christ 2,000,000
Church of Jesus Christ in Madagascar 2,000,000
Syrian Orthodox Church ("Jacobite") 2,000,000
Radhasoami 2,000,000
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism 2,000,000
True (Old Calendar) Orthodox Church of Greece 2,000,000
Reformed Church in Hungary 2,000,000
American Muslim Society 2,000,000
Presbyterian Church of Korea (Tonghap) 1,660,248
Council of Baptist Churches of NE India 1,630,000
Ethiopian Evangelical Church Mekane Yesus 1,625,994
Baptist Bible Fellowship International 1,600,000
Salvation Army 1,500,000
Myanmar Baptist Convention 1,500,000
Malagasy Lutheran Church (Madagascar) 1,500,000
American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A. 1,455,855
Brazilian Baptist Convention 1,440,000
Dutch Reformed Church (NGK; South Africa) 1,403,180
Alawi 1,400,000
Council of Evangelical Methodist Churches
of Latin America and the Caribbean 1,400,000
Uniting Church in Australia 1,386,000
United Church of Christ 1,377,320
Christ Apostolic Church (Nigeria) 1,300,000
Union of American Hebrew Congregations (Reform) 1,300,000
Pentecostal Church of Indonesia 1,280,000
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church 1,252,369
Church of Central Africa, Presbyterian (CCAP; Malawi) 1,250,000
Nigerian Baptist Convention 1,250,000
Church of the Nazarene 1,216,657
African Methodist Episcopal Church 1,200,000
Divine Light Mission 1,200,000
Church of God Miss. Intl. (Nigeria) 1,200,000
British Methodist Church 1,200,000
Church of North India 1,125,000
Christian Churches and Churches of Christ 1,070,000
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) 1,043,943
United Orthodox Jewish Congregation of America 1,043,943
Lott Carey Baptist Foreign Mission Convention, USA 1,050,000
Evangelical Church of the Lutheran Confession in Brazil 1,000,000
ISKCON 1,000,000
Syrian Orthodox Church of Malabar (Mar Thoma) 1,000,000
National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A. 1,000,000
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World 1,000,000
PL Kyodan 1,000,000
Sekai Kyuseikyo 1,000,000
Church of Christ in Nigeria 1,000,000
Unity Church 1,000,000
Igreja Evangelica Pentecostal (Brazil) 1,000,000
Church of Scotland 1,000,000
Sukyo Mahikari 1,000,000

Amazing, isn't it, that Seventh-day Adventist Church and Jehovah's Witnesses both have millions more members and most likely more active "TRUE BELIEVERS", than Mormonism does.

The Jehovah's Witness Church began its fraud in 1872. The Seventh Day Adventists began their cult and were formally organized as the Seventh-day Adventist Church on May 21, 1863.

So, the Mormons and Joe Smith, had a 42 year jump on the JWs and a 33 year jump on the SDAs and yet they are kicking the Mormons ass, all the way to freakin Kolob, by several million?!!

Another sad commentary for people like Billsjane, Daniel Peterson, John Lynch and Gordon B. Hinckley. Chew on that little caveat boys!! How could God's "one and only true and living church on the planet earth", get their ass kicked by these other cults?

Aw..that's right, it's Satan's amazing power to deceive people, which is obviously more powerful than the Mormon God's power, right? What a joke!!

Bottom line, they are all pathetic, damn cults, man made, man created and ultimately, have nothing to do with any God and they all believe that they have the only truth and those that don't believe in them are screwed in the end.

I appreciate Anon for his/her comments, as they inspired me to do some research that I hadn't done in a while and I will probably turn this comment into both a post on my Mormon Truth blog and probably a podcast as well.

Take care everyone and I encourage everyone to drop Billsjane an Email, as he has been harassing me now for about 2 months, with 18 emails and he's been harassing Eric as well, with over 20 Emails.


The guy is abusive, calls us and our God a loser, calls us fags, homos, you name it and then, he calls us bigots to boot, while bearing his testimony of the Mormon cult and fraud. The guy is sick and seriously needs professional help!!

If you are reading this Billsjane, go check into a mental care center, for real, and get your shit taken care of, you need it really bad. Like I said over on Frappr, the first step would be to get out of the Mormon cult, as that might be a huge help to your mental stability!!

Also, for those reading this, I've resolved my Podcast hosting problems for the time being and should be up and running tonight, with parts 3 & 4 of Jared, the Apologist interview.

I'll also have at least 2 new podcasts to release this upcoming week, so look forward to those.

Also, I think that I may have mentioned this in one of my other posts here, that I'm going to be releasing, higher, better quality versions of each of my now 17 podcasts since I won't be restricted like I was before.

So, for those of you that want to delete your old ones and just download all of them again, you'll have a better product to listen to, if you ever want to listen to the old ones again.

As always, thanks everyone for your support and emails and keep up the fight and help as many people as you can!!


At May 03, 2006 9:27 AM, Blogger Chris said...

I knew the church would change.
Today, I have seen the new promotion video of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. After several decades of severe hostility from Gay Activists, Jehova, the Almighty, yea, even the Lord, has made up his mind.
And he has revealed himself to a young guy.
I have witnessed it myself, and you can, too.
God does actually not condone homosexuality anymore, on the contrary, but see it for yourself.

The god of Mormon:

It's interesting to see how God's morality progresses and becomes modern, isn't it?

At September 28, 2006 1:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Mormon Church wants to pretend that it is Christian. People may think this means they have changed to Christian doctrine, discarding the old dark doctrines of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the others who brought so much demonic influence into the LDS Church. If you would like to see the current LDS Church leadership's position on this, you can see and hear them say that they do NOT believe in the Christian concept of Jesus. A DVD of this is available at www.beyondmormonism.com. It uses video, audio and written statements of the current LDS leadership on the subject of whether or not Mormons really fit in with Christians. Remember, they claim they are Christians, but their leaders say they do not have the Christian concept of Jesus. How can someone by Christian yet deny the Christian Jesus?

At February 18, 2009 10:41 PM, Anonymous Reggie said...

Wow, this place is living proof of how much shit can abound in the minds of a bunch of disgruntled little asswipes with too much time in their hands and little to achieve! Damn techno-integration!


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