Mormon Truth Podcast #17-An Interview Mormon Apologist Jared-Part 4
MP3 File
Well guys, here we are, finally at part 4, of the interview with the Mormon Apologist Jared. Again, I do apologize for the delays, as I've been trying to revamp all of my shows for you guys and get them posted on my new host and also record some new podcasts, which I have also done during this process.
This week is gonna be a good week and I'll make it up to you guys, as you won't be disappointed. My next 3 podcasts, which are already recorded, and should prove to be very interesting, to most of you out there, especially you TBMs, specifically women.
Here in Part 4, of the interview with the Mormon Apologist Jared, we continue on where we left off in part 3, with Jared discussing what his definition of repentance is. We then go into what is forgiveness and how and when we are forgiven for our sins. Eric posed some great questions that seemed to be new territory for Jared which in turn left him quite confused at times.
Eric then quotes Mormon Prophet Spencer W. Kimball out of "Miracle of Forgiveness", which clearly showed that Jared's conclusions or personal opinions, on forgiveness, were wrong, according to Kimball.
We then discuss what it takes to get into the Celestial Kingdom and Jared seems to be in a little bit of denial, that you have to be a Mormon, in this life or the next, in order to achieve that. Jared justifies the Mormon teachings, by once again, comparing it to Christianity, which was getting very tired for me at this point.
Jared does point out, with his argument, the flaws in both Mormonism and Christianity, in regard to who is saved and I have to say that I agree with that argument, that both are very flawed. However, the flaws in Christianity have nothing to do with and do not justify, the flaws in the Mormon cult.
There are many more topics that you guys will enjoy, as the above description only covers the first 10 minutes or so. Now, when the show ended, I continued recording, as we discussed many extra topics, that were not part of the regular show.
I have included as much of that bonus coverage as I can, without compromising Jared and the personal information regarding his life and some topics that he wasn't comfortable with me posting, which I respect. I had to do quite a bit of editing, but the bonus audio still turned out great.
Jared knows that I'm going to post this "bonus coverage", just so that everyone knows that I wasn't doing it behind his back. When I listened back to it, I realized that too many great things were discussed, to not include them in this podcast for all of you guys to hear.
So, enjoy everybody and thanks again for your patience in the delay of releasing this part 4 and I hope that you all enjoy it and that it was worth the wait. There should be no more long delays in releasing my podcasts, since I'm all set up now, finally, and I really appreciate all of you loyal listeners out there for your patience and support.
I also appreciate all of the recent hatemail from you clueless TBMS and apologists, who just attack me personally and condemn me to hell and can't wait for the Mormon God to serve out his justice, in this life or the next. Of course, all of this, without addressing one specific thing I've actually said or written about.
You guys just continue to show me why it is that I must continue to do what I'm doing and I appreciate it very much!! Now go back to your pathetic cult and bow your heads and say yes!!
Samuel the Utahnite
posted by Samuel the Utahnite @ 5/16/2006 06:59:00 AM
14 comments
14 Comments:
Thanks ZC, and I'm glad that you enjoyed this 4 part interview with Jared and the bonus material.
Also, I'm not worried about the hate-mailers, because like you say, it means they are listening and reading what I'm saying, which I find amazing and fascinating, since they consider me to the reincarnation of Satan himself on the earth.
So, thanks again for your support and I think that you, along with most of my other listeners, are gonna find the next 3 podcasts to be outstanding and very insightful.
Take care everybody and feel free to leave your comments, whether you are an Ex-Mormon or a TBM. From now on, this will be the primary place that I will be making any public comments.
I have frequented other boards, like Mormon Discussions, but quite frankly, I just don't have the time to continue doing that, while trying to write my blog, record and produce podcasts and attend to my regular life duties.
I would rather spend that time that I was spending over there, here, with you guys and those that listen to my podcasts. In other words, I want to use my time wisely and with those that will appreciate it and I just can't do both.
If anyone deserves my undivided attention and responses, it is those that spend hours listening to my podcast and reading my blogs.
So, again, my focus and comments, from this point forward, will be right here and through emails, so please leave your comments here or Email me, if you have something to say and want me to respond to you.
Take care everyone and thanks again for your support and patience, in waiting for these podcasts, as I worked out my tech problems. We should be able to rock and roll from this point forward without interruption.
I will be writing a page on my Mormon truth blog, explaining to everyone how to subscribe to my podcast, since iTunes has inexplicably deleted me from the directory.
My podcast is still there, still functions and downloads, but it just isn't listed in the directory any longer and they will not help me at all. I appreciate those that took the time to leave reviews, as we were up to 53 on Saturday, before they deleted me, along with all of the reviews.
ITunes has the worst customer service and techs on the entire planet earth and is a complete disgrace to the podcast world in my opinion. For being the biggest podcast advertiser, they are a complete embarrassment to podcasters!!
If they aren't willing to help someone when they have a problem, they should just shut it down and get out of the podcasting business.
If anybody out there has any connections within Apple or iTunes, I welcome your assistance, as I'm batting zero in getting them to even address my concerns and fix this problem.
My guess is that some TBM works for them or Emailed them and they removed me. Why else would my podcast just vanish?
But, that's fine, because I'm not going anywhere and people can still listen and subscribe to my podcast easily. So, hey, you TBMS out there, that want to see me go away; go ahead and hold your breath!!
Here is a link to my Mormon Truth blog:
http://mormontruth.blogspot.com/
See you guys soon,
Samuel
Hey, this message is specifically for Jared and the Mormon Truth listeners out there, that just got done listening to this four part series.
First of all, I want to address Jared: I just want to say that it took a lot of courage, for Jared to come on a show with both myself and Eric, as he was outnumbered 2 to 1, right out of the gate.
We should all respect Jared a lot for this, since most TBMS or TBM Apologists, wouldn't want to come on a show and just take on one of us, let alone 2 of us.
By the way, to date, Jared is the ONLY Mormon Apologist or just plain Mormon period, that has come on the podcast with me.
I've responded to many hate-mailers, with a personal, open invitation, to come on my show and I've never gotten one response back from any of them, as they are all cowards of no substance and only personal attacks and they know it. Jared, however, is not a coward.
I have the greatest respect for Jared as a person and I think that he seems like a great guy. He was cordial to both of us and very generous with his time and was straight-forward and honest.
Also, originally, Jared was just going to be on the show with Eric, but he also wanted me to be a part of it, which I'm very appreciative of, to both Jared and Eric. I never had to even be a part of this interview, but they both wanted me to join them.
So, thanks again guys and I'm sure my listeners thank you too.
It would have been much easier for Jared to debate Eric, Mormonism VS. Christianity, then to throw me into the mix, bringing the Ex-Mormon VS. Mormon angle that otherwise wouldn't have existed. Bottom line, is that Jared chose the much more difficult path.
My point is, that Jared could have taken the easy route, but he took the difficult one, so again, we should all respect him for that.
Now, many of you have expressed very strong opinions to me, of Jared, and our interview and I both share and appreciate your passion for right and wrong and for all of your comments.
Even though Jared and I have mutual respect for each other, as human beings, we are 180 degrees opposite on most of our views on Mormonism.
So, my respect for him as a person, in no way clouds, or affects my views on his opinions regarding Mormonism and I agree with most of what you guys have said to me, through emails and comments, regarding his ideas, feelings and opinions on Mormonism.
Jared disagrees with me, just as I disagree with him, but we were still able to remain friendly and keep things on a respectful level, which again, I appreciated.
As Jared mentioned in the interview, he has friends of a wide variety of faiths, which shows you the kind of person he is inside. Jared is not your typical, intolerant, judgmental TBM.
Jared should be an example to all of you other TBMS out there, that send me hate-mail, expressing your wishes that harm and very bad things happen to me and my family, either in this life or the next.
This proves that those of you who say that, are not really Mormons/Christians, as you would define yourselves and you certainly aren't good human beings and in fact, are most likely, rotten to the core and evil.
I love it when a hate-mailer basically threatens me and wishes evil and awful things to happen to me and then bears their testimony. These individuals are completely mentally ill and F'd in the head.
To me, it also shows the intolerance that Mormonism preaches and the type of people that it can and does create. As I've expressed so many times, in so many ways, Mormonism is a religion of hate, intolerance, bigotry and racism and it always has been and most likely, always will be.
They have fought against women's rights, blacks having the Priesthood, taught and still teach against interracial marriages and are currently fighting against homosexuals and their rights for unions and marriage, spending millions of tithing dollars in the process.
Oh yeah, how about their vile, "better off dead or in a pine box, than immoral" teaching? Oh yeah, just men being men, right? How can anybody justify this bullshit?
On top of this, they preach, from the first vision forward, as many of you know, that all other religions and Churches, are abominations, and that their preachers and teachings are false and corrupt.
Then, they go on national TV and completely lie to the world, by saying that Mormonism is just an "alternative religion" and Hinckley says that they just simply want to take your good, from your current Church and simply try to add to it.
So, it is no wonder, when you consider the totality of this picture, that I have people that are sending me emails, wishing me and my loved ones, physical harm or death.
They are simply a product of an evil, brain-washing, mind-controlling organization and cult, that has been evil at its core, since its inception and first leader, Joseph Smith, who was a criminal, pedophile and an adulterer, who then lied about all of his sexual escapades until the day he died.
I have no clue how Jared or anybody else can sweep so many things under the rug or "put them on the shelf", but they do it and it works for them. Do they need the Church to be true that bad, that none of this stuff even matters?
I do however give Jared a lot of credit for at least admitting to the racist teachings and that they were wrong, unlike most TBM Apologists, who even try to explain that shit away.
Now, what I have a hard time understanding, is how he can know that they were wrong and evil words and teachings, but still find a way to separate them from his belief that these were inspired men of God, in a direct line of authority and that despite them and their evil words and teachings, the Church is true.
Comparing the screw-ups in Mormonism, to the screw-ups in the Bible and Christianity, is getting old and tired and I find it to be absolutely absurd and ridiculous.
All that really does or accomplish, is to put a dark cloud over both Mormonism and Christianity, instead of exonerating or justifying Mormonism.
So, both are a mess, but Mormonism is less of a mess and so that makes it true? Mormonism is the "one and only true mess?" What kind of logic is that?
If, as a Mormon, your testimony is based on this type of pathetic logic, you don't really have a testimony at all, but you just haven't realized it yet.
But again, Jared was raised in an apologetic household, where he grew up accepting these things, so more than anything, he is a product of how he was raised and brought up and never believed in the Church, the way that I did and the way that the Church wants people to believe it and see it.
The Church teaches and wants it cult members to see black and white period, and Jared certainly isn't that person by any stretch of the imagination.
We pretty much covered all of this in the podcast, but I still don't think that either one of us, arrived at a point of truly understanding the other's point of view on these issues and we probably never will, which is fine. Sometimes, we just need to agree to disagree and move forward.
What I do really, truly appreciate, is the tolerance and respect that Jared had toward both Eric and myself, which nobody else, from the Mormon side of things, has shown me, during the last year.
I doubt that Eric has gotten much respect from TBMS either, but you'd have to ask him about that.
Even my best friend of over 30 + years, has abandoned our friendship and Jared even respects me more than he does, which I find amazing and to his credit. I don't mind agreeing to disagree, when we can do it with respect.
If somebody wants to get nasty and down in the trenches, I will gladly jump in and join you.
So, the bottom line, is, Jared, I respect you as a human being a ton, but I'll never understand or agree with your religious views but at least we tried, and you know what? It's okay!!
In the end, everyone has the right to believe whatever the hell they want to, I'm just here to help those, that are like me and have open, logical minds, and that want to know and understand the truth of Mormonism; that it is a fraudulent cult that is destroying and separating individuals and families!!
So, best wishes everybody and thanks again to both Eric and Jared, for helping this interview to work for all of us and I hope that most of you enjoyed it. Thanks again for your patience with my delays in getting the whole thing posted.
I know that Jared will be posting his comments on here soon and so I strongly encourage everyone here to respond to him and let him know what you think and feel free to express to him how you feel about his beliefs.
I don't care if we have 100 comments on here, that is what this forum is for. Just remember that Jared is a nice guy and you can disagree with him, without personally attacking him and I assure you, that he won't personally attack you.
Just to reiterate; Jared is not your typical TBM Apologist, that has to resort to personal attacks on us Ex-Mormons, in order to express his views.
I look forward to Jared's comments and what everybody else has to say in response to Jared.
Well, that's all for now. I will be putting out podcast #18 tonight, which will be part 1 of 3 and I'm sure that you guys and gals, are gonna love it.
Take care and I'll talk to everyone again soon.
Samuel
For all your denegrating others for their hatred toward you, you mask your hatred toward them with hollow plattitudes in an effort to show insincere respect.
I thought I'd check out your comments and possibly listen to your cast but you appear to be a hate monger out to embarrass and conflict rather than to convince with love and brotherly kindness. So I suppose you have attracted those very same feelings toward yourself in return.
I'm sorry for you that you feel that you were decieved by Mormons in the past but does that justify living a life of hate labeling people with acronyms and derogatory inferrences?
I live in Utah and know many mormons who are wonderful people and live Christian principles. I seems that your popularity has gotten the better of you. The Jesus that I cling to leads with love not denegration and malice.
I think you have lost your way.
Brother In Christ
To previous commenter....Are you LDS? Lets cross that bridge before we get into Samuels anger
My guess he/she's a TBM, "...labeling people with acronyms...." Unfortunately this person has chosen to not address any issues.
In regards to the comment, "The Jesus that I cling to leads with love not denegration and malice." I think the writer is saying that Samuel's Jesus leads with denigration and malice. If the writer has listened to the podcasts he/she might find that Samuel obviously hasn't subscribed to a/the Jesus since exiting Mormonism.
Jesus spoke out against and denounced evil. Although I cannot speak for Samuel, he might see the Mormon Church as evil. So I guess Samuel is doing what Jesus did.
Hey Anon, the one from May 18, 2006 3:22 PM
What's up? Are you illiterate? I mean give me a damn break and try to actually educate yourself, and read some of my 150+ posts and listen to some of my 17 podcasts and maybe, with much luck and blessings from the Mormon God; you will learn something and actually know what I believe and why.
Also, studying "TRUE MORMON HISTORY" would be very helpful for you!!
Frankly, I'm so damn sick of ignorant, clueless people like yourself, that condemn me for condemning the Mormon Church Hierarchy and then you pretend to be an authority on me, when your complete ignorance is so transparent and obvious.
You and many other TBMS, take everything I say personally, as if I'm condemning the average member of the Church, when that couldn't be further from the truth.
Remember, Mr. Anon TBMer, I used to be an "AVERAGE" member of the Church, a TBM, less than a year ago.
That was before I discovered the fraud and that I was in a cult and that I had been brainwashed and indoctrinated from the day I was born, with the Mormon Hierarchy's sanitized version of their pathetic fairy tale.
Instead of attacking me personally, why don't you try to do something constructive and intelligent, like address what I've actually said and the evil doctrines of Mormonism.
Of course you can't do that, because I'm right on the money, the Mormon money, so you then resort to just personally attacking me. Of course, let's not forget that you consider yourself to be a "brother in Christ", which is completely laughable.
You and all the others that do this, are so transparent and we, on this side of the Mormon fence, can all see it so clearly.
If you had actually read my posts and listened to my podcasts, you would of course know what I truly believe.
When I refer to the TBMS, that disgust me, I'm referring to the dumb asses that condemn me to hell, call me awful names and wish to cause harm to both me and my family, while writing threatening Emails.
How many of these losers have temple recommends and take the sacrament every week? My guess is quite a few of them, if not most of them and they feel justified, because they are defending the "Jesus that they cling to."
I'm talking about the ones that call me a fag, and a homo, for condemning the Church's evil teachings on homosexuality. They call me an adulterer, a son of perdition, a druggie, that I'm working with Satan now, that I'm worse than a murderer or rapist and on and on.
Do you even have the slightest bit of a clue what you are talking about Anon or is your "cog dis" just too great to overcome, after a lifetime of indoctrination?
Are you one of these people that would kill me if you could...burn my house down, kill my family, call me an adulterous faggot....good Lord!! I sure hope you aren't, but you defend these people? Are you serious? How do you look at yourself in the mirror?
So, get off of your damn high horse, come back to earth and understand how evil some of you TBMs out there are and that you shouldn't want to be associated with them, if you indeed, don't think like they do, or agree with these things, which I pray to the Mormon God you don't.
Now, please allow me to address each paragraph of your comments and I'll try to be as nice as I can, even though your remarks were made in complete and utter ignorance.
I'm sure that I will fail in the niceness category, because, as I mentioned above, I've had it with your type!!
For all your denegrating others for their hatred toward you, you mask your hatred toward them with hollow plattitudes in an effort to show insincere respect.
Well, first of all, isn't "'hollow' platitudes" pretty redundant? And "all my denigrating of others for their Hatred toward me?" What am I supposed to do, bow down and kiss their ass up one side and down the other and thank them for threatening me and wishing physical harm upon me and my loved ones?
What are you smoking dude? Some of Joe's peyote, that was leftover from all of his visions? What world exactly are you living in? Get some mental help please!!
Oh yeah and my "hollow platitudes" are in an effort to show "insincere respect?" I mean seriously, what are you smoking man?
You are about as clueless as they come and you are making a complete ass of yourself, by clearly showing that you haven't read, nor listened to anything I've written or said and yet you act as if you are an expert on me.
If you have read and listened to my stuff, then you obviously have a learning disability and need to go get some help for that, in addition to all of your other issues. Hey, I'm just responding to your personal attacks on me.
If you knew anything about me, you would know that my issues are with the Mormon Hierarchy and the Mormon Church's evil teachings, that have been handed down since ol'Joe brought his "one and only true and living insane asylum" to the earth.
For those that want to defend pedophilia, polygamy, racism, homicidal angels with flaming swords and many other things, you are just as bad as they are and were. Frankly those of you that do this, disgust me and I feel sorry for you.
How can anyone, knowing the true facts, have sympathy and feel the need to apologize for these evil, vile men, and their deeds and teachings.
At least Jared doesn't think the racism is fantastic and agree with Brigham Young's statements and many others, that "blacks are the seed of Cain and should suffer death on the spot."
Do you support these teachings Anon? If you do, go repent to your God, whoever or whatever that is.
I thought I'd check out your comments and possibly listen to your cast but you appear to be a hate monger out to embarrass and conflict rather than to convince with love and brotherly kindness. So I suppose you have attracted those very same feelings toward yourself in return.
I'm out to embarrass and conflict? No Anon, I'm here to tell the whole truth, the real truth and it isn't pretty, is it?
Do you support "death on the spot" or "better off dead in a pine box than immoral?" I'm sure you do!!
Who cares how man suicides have come from those teachings, right? Why would you care? After all, the Mormon Church is true and that's all there is to it, because your bosom says so.
Quite frankly, if you, are an apologist and defender of Mormonism, of these evil men and their teachings and deeds, that have cost human life, then you truly make my stomach turn and I would rather that you not listen to my podcasts or read my blog. I don't associate with people like you in my life.
Go live your pathetic life and do whatever it is you do instead of bitching about what I do, while defending vile things. You are the one that is an embarrassment to humanity, if you support this bullshit.
Brotherly kindness? Oh, like the kind you are showing me and others, who have been victimized by the Mormon Cult and these vile teachings? Get your head checked, seriously!!
Do you have one shred of compassion, human decency or understanding, that can surpass your supposed burning bosom that justifies everything? It appears that you don't!!
You said, "So I suppose you have attracted those very same feelings toward yourself in return."
Oh yeah, and you, along with these TBMS, that spew their hatred toward me and my family and those of us that are now against the Church, are just returning back to me and others, what we put out and what we deserve?
You feel that they are justified in their hatred toward me, because of what I've exposed about Mormonism?
So, I see how it is; does the Jesus that you supposedly believe in and cling to and worship, support these actions of hatred? Sounds Christlike to me!!
What do the 52,000 + Mormon missionaries do every single day, knocking doors, all around the world, trying to share "the one and only true and living Church?"
Is it okay for them to share their truth, that all other religions are abominations, but I can't share my discovery that the Mormon Church is an abomination?
You, Anon, pretend to be this self-righteous individual, like you've got it all figured out, that I'm this evil person, when you don't have a clue who I am and haven't even bothered to find out.
Did I engage you personally or did you engage me? Did I seek you out and go after you personally, along with your family and friends, for your beliefs, telling you that you deserve hatred and threats for your defense or belief in Mormonism? No, I did not and you are Mr. Christlike dude or chick?
I'm sorry for you that you feel that you were deceived by Mormons in the past but does that justify living a life of hate labeling people with acronyms and derogatory inferrences?
You feel sorry for me? Yeah, your comment is just oozing sympathy and you think that I'm lying? You are sorry that I discovered the truth of the evil Mormon Cult? "Living a life of hate?" Oh, telling the truth about your "beloved, sacred cult" and "Joseph's house of horrors and death penalties", is hate?
What about those of us that once had to agree to slit open their neck, chest and stomach? That wasn't hate though, right? Hell No, of course not, it was just a simple threat of death, if we ever revealed the "SECRETS" of the temple.
In your jacked up world of Mormonism, it was a very sacred ordinance from God, right? You TBMs, that have the facts, and then live everyday defending it, live in a very twisted, sick and convoluted world, don't you?
So, like Kolage asked, are you even Mormon, or just some pathetic non-Mormon Mormon Apologist. If you aren't Mormon, you are even more pathetic than those that are Mormon.
A life of hate? Again, put down the crack pipe or your peyote, because you are as high as a kite and are really embarrassing yourself.
Like I said, I'm just plain sick of people like you and I'm not gonna hold back any longer and I will tell you exactly what I think.
So, you say that I'm "labeling people with acronyms and derogatory inferences?" Hey, if the acronym or derogatory inference fits them perfectly, why not?
You know, the whole "if the shoe fits" saying? I mean after all, Joseph Smith, through Jesus Christ, in the first vision, calls all other religions abominations, their professors and teachings to be false and corrupt.
Would you consider any of those words to be, "acronyms and derogatory inferences?" Oh wait, but they came directly from Jesus, with only Joe as a witness, so those words are just fine.
Of course the First Vision was just an evolving story/fairy tale, and a complete fabrication, that turned into what we have now. It suddenly got grandiose, when Joseph was about to lose the Church and his authority in or around 1838, when it was written, 18 years after it supposedly happened.
Gee, silly me, I always thought that it was known by everybody when the Church was organized in 1830 and one of the key reasons for organizing the Church; isn't that what they teach us? Isn't that what I taught on my mission in the FIRST VISION FILMSTRIP?
But, like your "beloved, thank God for a Prophet" says, SO WHAT? He doesn't give a shit, so why should you, right?
I mean if Hinckley can so easily shrug of all of the facts and evidences, then why can't you?
After all, he is your shining light and example, who is receiving direct revelation from God, in such a lone and dreary world, right? He is a Prophet, Seer and Revelator and he has all the keys...LOL!!
These "acronyms and derogatory inferences", that you refer to, that I use, are parts of speech that perfectly describe the actions of certain individuals.
I mean, lets see here: Boyd K. Packer is a bigot, who preaches that Gays are not born that way and can be fixed and that interracial people shouldn't marry each other, unless they are exceptions, which include only General Authorities, because they know better.
Oh yeah, and most important of his bigoted teachings, is that Caucasians should only marry Caucasians. You agree with this? I'm sure you do!!
So, why has the Mormon Church removed Señor Packer's "To The One" speech" and "Little Boys Shouldn't Fondle Their Little Factories" speech? This is a man 2nd in line, behind Monson, to be the Prophet?
They've never come out publicly and condemned those speeches, rather, they just quietly removed them..hmm...I wonder why? Do you support those speeches too Anon?
Does this make all Mormons out to be bigots, as you suggest I'm doing? No, it doesn't and if you had half a brain, you could see that.
Now, people that support this, as you most likely do, are also bigots and disgusting human beings and I don't care what religion they are.
Again, I hope that you don't support the Mormon bigotry and racism, but your comments lead me to believe that you do. Either that, or you are unaware of them, which I hope is the case.
They are racists and bigots and that fact can't be denied. You want to debate that...lets go..I'll be waiting.
In fact, please...PLEASE, come on my podcast and tell the world how you support bigotry, racism, pedophilia, polygamy, Blood Atonement, that Adam was God, that God had physical sex with Marry, who was just one of God's many polygamous wives from Kolob, that he loaned to Joseph, for this life only.
You have an open invitation Anon and I'll do the show tonight, tomorrow or the next day, if you want to do it and have the cojones to come on and walk the walk of your talk.
I've been waiting for someone like you to come on my show and completely embarrass themselves, and the Church, as you surely would.
Are you so soft in your life, that you can't call wrong wrong and evil evil and then vilify anyone that does do what you can't? How did you get to this point?
I live in Utah and know many mormons who are wonderful people and live Christian principles. I seems that your popularity has gotten the better of you. The Jesus that I cling to leads with love not denegration and malice.
I think you have lost your way.
Brother In Christ
Yes, Mr. "Brother in Christ", you certainly have shown me a ton of love, haven't you? Yes, you completely respect us ex-Mormons don't you?
Would you still practice blood atonement on us if the law allowed it, and Hinckley commanded it, like Joe and Briggy, since that was a divinely inspired law of God?
By the way, I also "know many Mormons who are wonderful people and live Christian principles" and that is why I don't attack them.
Some of them are my friends, family and neighbors. I have compassion for them and hope that they can find true happiness.
They have the right to believe whatever they want, but I'm here to tell them the truth and then let them decide what they want to do.
This is not an option that the Mormon cult Hierarchy gives or allows their followers and they never will. They just want them to know as little as possible and their version of the fairy tale and then they warn them not to EVER read any books outside of Mormonism and that some truths are not important.
They don't know what their Church has actually taught in the past, what they actually believe now and what the true history is.
These people are brainwashed cult members, just like I and many others were and that is why I do what I do. I'm here to help those with open minds, that sincerely seek out the truth. I get many Emails, every week, thanking me for what I'm doing.
Last year alone, over 60,000 people, had their name removed of off the rolls, if not more and this number will continue to grow ever year.
You say, "I seems that your popularity has gotten the better of you." WTF? My popularity has gotten the better of me?
Oh, so you think that I'm just out taking polls, to see what I should be saying and then go with the crowd? If you've noticed, which I'm sure you haven't, I live in Utah too.
People that have my beliefs, in Utah, are the extreme minority and not too popular here; especially when I have to deal with the likes of people like you, who will defend evil, vile teachings, right to their deathbed, because their bosom is burning. People that have these beliefs, make me sick!!
To my credit, most of what I now know, I didn't know before and once I learned it; how evil and vile it all was, I left immediately while I kept researching and then writing and recording my podcasts.
Sadly, people like you, learn the truth and somehow twist it all up into a king sized Mormon pretzel, with bosom sprinkled on top, that somehow, bizarrely, strengthens your testimony.
The only break I'll give you Anon, is if you are a die-hard TBM, that hasn't studied or done your research and you still believe in your heart that I'm spewing lies, due to the bosom burning situation. I once had that attitude too, before I was enlightened.
If this is the case, you are just a brainwashed TBM/cult member and I feel sorry for you and hope that you can learn about the facts and get out.
Now, if the above example, is not what is happening with you, then I cut you no slack, everything I've said stands, but I still feel sorry for you, because if you can accept all the BS and even worse, defend this evil stuff; then you are a vile human being and nobody that I would ever want to personally know.
So, good luck, whatever your situation is, because either way, you need it!!
Also, thanks to those others that have left comments, while I was composing this response.
By the way, as the last poster said, for those that believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, and the Bible as Anon claims to; Jesus did condemn false doctrines and even over turned the tables in the temple and booted out the money-changers and got pretty pissed off.
So, yeah, if you believe in said Jesus, then what's wrong with anger against evil doctrines, practices and teachings? If Jesus could do it, why not somebody else?
Thanks Anon, from May 18, 2006,10:11 PM, for sharing that story, to help Anon understand a basic principle, that is based on his beliefs.
I do what I do, not because of what Jesus did or didn't do, but because the Mormon Church is a very evil, destructive cult, that destroys the lives of individuals and families.
They do it all for filthy lucre and in the name of their fabricated God, while robbing the poor, among many things and then bragging about it to the masses.
As the other Anon poster asserted 100% correctly, I do not have an agenda, or a Jesus or God, that I'm trying to force on anybody, veiled with the threat of condemnation if they don't accept it.
This makes what I do and my purpose, very different from what many others out there are doing, and it separates me from those that preach against Mormonism with an agenda or end result, of bringing people to Jesus.
They want to help the Mormons, hoping that they will then follow whoever they claim Jesus or God to be.
I want to spread the truth of the evil and vile Mormon cult, to as many people as I can and it's as simple as that. No hidden agendas, just truth and facts.
In my eyes, any religion or individual, that throws these threats of condemnation around or "losing your soul forever" if you don't follow their idea of God or Jesus, is just as bad and evil as Mormonism. It is intolerance at its worst and morally wrong.
I know that some of you will not like what I just said, but think about it and ponder it. What makes you the authority, and what makes your Jesus or your God, or your interpreted belief so correct, that you can freely condemn people in said Jesus' or God's name.
Especially for those of you that condemn Mormons for doing this very same thing...this makes anyone that does this, while condemning Mormonism, just another hypocrite...do as I say, not as I do.
I don't have time for those that want to justify their condemnation of people, while condemning Mormons for doing the same thing they do.
Sadly, Christianity as a whole, goes around condemning and threating everyone that doesn't come to their version of Jesus. Now, I speak of the activists and preachers, not the common Christians, who are just following and trying to find their way.
Most Christian denominations or other cults, believe and preach, that they too, have the only truth and in the end, it is a financial situation for them too.
If people felt that they could go to any old sect or Church or denomination, why would they go to a specific one and thus the reason they have to create the urgency.
The dance they are dancing, is that they want those that go to their specific Church, to believe that they've got it all down correctly, right?
Don't tell me that the local preacher of some Church wouldn't care if everyone moved across town to another rival Church and left him without any contributions or in the end, a job.
It's always about the money for these guys and thus the need to throw in fear and condemnation.
In general, most people need or want something to believe in and something to cling to, but the urgency and fear, is a big part of helping them choose where to go.
What happened to "freedom of choice?" Oh yeah, just like Mormonism, people have "freedom of Choice", as long as they choose the beliefs of the individual talking to them...what a joke!!
I can't believe that those of you out there that do this, can't see the irony. Simply put; you can't condemn others for doing what you do, because your so called "truth", is no more plausible or proven, anymore than their version of "truth" is.
Nobody knows anything for sure, as to who and what God is but there sure are a lot of experts out there that will be glad to tell you and try to convert you to their version.
My advice to you guys that are doing this; when something is so obviously a fraud, as Mormonism is...go ahead and prove it wrong and shout it to the world.
But, when you are done, please stop short on condemning the people you are trying to help, if they don't come over to your side of the fence and believe what you believe.
Let these people alone, to make their own choices and decisions, to decide which path is right for them, without you trying to force it upon them and threaten them with the same condemnation and fear that the Mormon or some other Church had thrust upon them for their entire life.
My condemning days are behind me, unless you are just an evil vile person, or organization, like the Mormon cult Hierarchy, who knowingly, and with smiles on their faces and in their eyes, are leading people astray with their lies and fraud.
So, in review; the Mormon Church and its hierarchy, have been or are still, against women's rights, blacks, Jews, Indians(Lamanites); anyone of a darker skin color(cursed by God due to sin), interracial or intercultural marriages(unless you are a GA); homosexuals and their rights; anyone that masturbates or has moral sins(they are better off dead or in a pine box); anyone of another religion,(because all other religions are abominations); pedophilia, polygamy and polyandry, which, of course was all commanded of the Mormon God, with the threat of said homicidal angel, with the flaming sword, who would have killed Joseph Smith, if he didn't do it, all against his will of course. Why?
Because Joseph Smith claimed that he was just as innocent, after taking 33 wives, as he was 14 years earlier.
Of course, this was when he denied that he was a polygamist. That public denial, lasted until the day he died. Oh yeah, and he was greater than Jesus Christ too....Praise to the man, right?
Maybe they should have waited to see if the angel did kill him, as that would have been better for all of the lives he destroyed along the way, through his immoral, dirty, nasty filthy affairs.
Of course, the promise of Eternal life in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom, was the hook for most of his victims and their families and they were brainwashed cult members, with a sex freak leading them, as is the case in most cults, so they fell for it.
I just list these things again, to point out, what exactly our Anon poster supports, believes in and defends. Again, he feels sorry for me? That is a laughable statement, if it wasn't so damn sad!!
In Mormonism, you cannot pick and choose. As Hinckley and others have said repeatedly, it's black or white, all true or one of the greatest frauds the world has ever seen. I'll go with the latter!!
I look forward to your response Anon. You TBMS are welcome in here to debate me and others and I will never edit your comments, but be prepared to get a response back from me that you won't like, especially if you are a die-hard defender of filthy and dirty deeds.
I do give Anon some kudos for coming in here and leaving such ridiculous, ignorant comments though, as that took some guts.
Most of these people are very thin skinned and aren't able to stand up to the scrutiny or tough response, so thanks Anon!!
Now lets see if you have the cojones to come on my show, one on one and debate these issues with me, for thousands to here.
We all look forward to your response Anon, so don't be a stranger and please quit defending unconscionable, revolting teachings and practices by your beloved cult, while condemning me for simply revealing the truth about them, okay?
So, best wishes everyone and thanks again for all of your comments and support.
Samuel
Hi Samuel, I am so enjoying the effort you are putting into these podcasts and your blog. I do know exactly how you feel. I too was a member my entire life, did 4 years seminary, did a mission, did it all until the day came that I could no longer push forward emotionally in it. It was that severe pain that took me on this journey out of the cult. I've been out for several years now, but I'm still learning just how ingrained it was in me. I've lost my entire family over this. But, I've gained my "self". I'm now an atheist and more at peace than I ever have been.
I have written and composed my own music album that deals with my exit from Mormonism. You can check it out on www.steppinupmusic.com. Obviously it hasn't been very popular, but for me, it says it all.
Thanks again for all your time and effort.
Well done.
To commenter above...
I am glad you found your way out of Mormonism, but sad to hear you find you way into atheism. How come I hear a lot of stories where Mormons leave the church and turn to atheism? it seems like going from one extreme to another. Can you anyone tell me about that? Just curious as to why this happens. Where's the next podcast Sammy?? Keep it up...Grace and Peace
-Eric Hoffman
Eric,
I can only answer your question from my point of view, but I will try. Being a TBM, trying to attain perfection, constantly being given the impression that you're not good enough, that there's always more to be done, decrees that wade quite deeply into your own very personal affairs - well - it puts a bad taste in your mouth for organized religion. Do all religions exercise this kind of control? No, but upon exit, it's very easy to become angered at any religion.
For the ex-TBMs, their lives were completely turned upside down. The very belief system that you were taught from a very young age, that you incorporated into your life, that you spent time devoting yourself to (especially for RM's) - has turned out to be a huge load of crap.
I know in my case I tried to look into other religions as well, but after my Morg experience I looked at all religions with a suspicious eye. It's not that hard to see that there are flaws with any religion - and post-exit from the cult, alot of time (in my opinion) should be spent on your own, just digesting the experience you've just gone through. Does it make us jaded? Sure. And let's face it - Organized religion isn't for everyone.
Love the Podcast. It was cool for Jared to come on. But good Lord, at times my wife and I couldn't believe the crap and flip flopping coming out of his mouth. I thought it was "All true or none of it's true." I don't get how he can agree with the Prophet one minute, then say he was wrong the next.
And comparing Mormonism to other religions was great. Because that is exactly what it is, just another religion.
Keep up the good work.
Samuel wrote:
Comparing the screw-ups in Mormonism, to the screw-ups in the Bible and Christianity, is getting old and tired and I find it to be absolutely absurd and ridiculous.
All that really does or accomplish, is to put a dark cloud over both Mormonism and Christianity, instead of exonerating or justifying Mormonism.
So, both are a mess, but Mormonism is less of a mess and so that makes it true? Mormonism is the "one and only true mess?" What kind of logic is that?
-----------------------------------
Actually, its quite logical:
Many Critics of the LDS faith are other Denomination Christians.
They attack Mormonism from their point of view, basing their arguments on bible verses, pointing out that "the Jesus of the bible" said this,while "the mormon Jesus" says that.
What Jared then points out that the bible faces the very same problems with regards to archaeological excavations, historicity, contradictions, church history, the canonization of the bible,etc.
The reason why Jared points these problems out is that they are plainly IGNORED by those so-called christians.
They talk about THE BIBLE, while we don't have any original any more but hundreds of varying copies, many talk in a deragoratory manner about the catholic church, while their bible was constructed/compiled by the catholic church, there are many stories which historians agree to be unhistorical.
This is silently ignored by the christians who want to promote their own faith at the cost of the mormon faith, simply to satisfy their ego.
"We are the true church, and the more mormons we convert, the more do I feel the spirit".
These arguments were not directed to you, as you seem to have a very different problem with Mormonism.
They were rather directed to Eric who also holds the beliefs described above.
Your point is rather that you feel betrayed when you found out about the irregularities in the LDS church. In that regard, your aim to expose Mormonism and Erics aim to convert people from the LDS faith to ...(I don't know which denomination he is, baptist?).
So maybe you didn't get the point because it was not directed at your arguments and lines of thinking, but to Eric's core belief in "naive christianity".
So far so good,
wish you the best,
Greg.
Hey Greg,
I appreciate your comments and I did understand the point Jared was making, but I was simply making the point, that if that is his logic, to help prove Mormonism to be true, regardless of how one feels about mainstream Christianity; it is fatally flawed and absurd, not to mention ridiculous.
Now, while I consider Eric to be my friend and I appreciate his effort to share the truth about Mormonism; we have many differences on our beliefs regarding God/Jesus, organized religion, etc and I'll be posting a comment, right after this one, addressing some of these issues.
I'm sure for those that have listened to the interview that I did with Eric and then the interview with Jared, that we both did, that we have big differences, as we expressed some of those during those podcasts.
We both share the common goal of spreading the "REAL TRUTH", about Mormonism, but then go our separate ways after that and probably even more so now, as I continue my journey to reality, regarding all organized religion and man's idea of what and who God is.
Eric appears to have found a place where he has settled in and is happy, while my beliefs and knowledge, continue to evolve and grow on a daily basis. Everybody has to discover or find their own place where they are happy and that is what I'm attempting to do.
Eric made a comment here, that he wants the answer to why people become Atheist after leaving Mormonism and I'm gonna answer that question for him and add to the comments that have already been made.
My differences aren't just with Eric, rather any "mainstream Christian", that is trying to shove his one and only true God/Jesus/beliefs, down everyone's throat.
It is just as arrogant for them to claim that they have it all figured out and have the only truth, just like Mormons do. I don't think they can argue this point without looking pretty bad in the process.
I will make these points in my next comment to a much greater extent.
Now, don't get me wrong; I believe that it's great to help expose Mormonism for the evil fraud and cult that it is, but these die-hard Christians, need to stop there and let people find their own way, unless they are specifically asked for advice.
I'm finding more and more, that these die-hard Christians, are just as fanatical, if not more fanatical, than the Mormons that they are trying to expose.
Condemning average people doesn't seem like something an abused Mormon needs, right after learning they were defrauded for their whole life, nor does it seem like a very "Christian" thing to do. The whole picture is a bit puzzling to me, as I wonder how they justify their actions.
I do find it amazingly hypocritical, that other, mainstream Christians, condemn Mormons, for doing the very same thing that they are doing. Can't they see this?
Are they as blinded as Mormons are? I'm starting to think so. They are being religious zealots, as much as the die-hard Mormons are, if not more so.
So, let me get this straight...many mainstream Christians go on missions, to Utah specifically, to preach to Mormons how evil their Church is and that they should believe in their version of God/Jesus and if they don't, they will lose their souls forever or be damned for Eternity? Are you kidding me?
So, why do they, these Christian missionaries, have such a problem with Mormon missionaries doing the same thing they are doing? It's hypocrisy at its finest.
How do they justify it? Oh yeah, they have the "only truth and the only true path", just like Mormons claim, I forgot.
But the difference is (as I firmly put my tongue in my cheek), that their interpretation of things is spot on, and 100% accurate, unlike Mormonism or any other religion, which is lost and doesn't have their idea of truth.
I hope that it isn't just me that can see the irony in this hypocrisy. Again, I will cover this more throughly in my next comment.
Thanks again Greg for your comments and don't be a stranger. Like I've mentioned; I'm going to be very involved and engaged here, from now on, in this comment section of my blog, with all of you.
I should have been more involved from the beginning, but better late than never. I was making plenty of comments and writing a ton, but it was in the wrong place and I apologize to my readers and listeners for that.
Take care everyone, and thanks for all the comments and be sure to comment on my current podcasts as well.
Both Joy and I, are anxious to know what your think of our interview and the experiences that she shares, especially if you are a TBM or somebody wondering if the Mormon Church is true or not.
It was just nice to get a woman's perspective on things in such a male dominated, sexist culture of Mormonism.
Best wishes and I'll talk to all you soon,
Samuel
In response to earlier comments... It is true that Samuel is very passionate about what he does. But does that mean he's full of hate? I think not! Anger? To a degree. Why? Because he discovered, for himself, that he has been lied to, brainwashed, and decieved all his life. Like Samuel himself has said, he does not hate Mormons. His issue is with the leaders who continue to promote the church and hide and cover their darker moments in history. The only time Samuel speaks strongly about the members is when they email him FIRST with their threats and such. Samuel, being the passionate person that he is, is not just going to sit there without saying something. I don't know Samuel personally, but I can definitely tell that he is a sincere person. He is the kind of person who will always be a loyal friend, UNTIL you betray that friendship. The bottom line is this: stop attacking Samuel personally and start refuting his message, if you can. This has been Samuel's challenge from the beginning. Enough said.
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