Mormon Truth Podcast #19-An Interview With Joy, An Ex-Mormon-Part 2
MP3 File
This is part 2 of my interview with Joy. We appreciate everyone that has listened to part 1 and hope that you will enjoy part 2 just as much.
In this part, we start off where part 1 left off, with Joy explaining what the Church taught her regarding marriage and the Mormon depiction of marriage. She shares some absolutely revolting quotes, about how much a man should love his wife and children, compared to the Mormon Church, from Brigham Young, of course, in The Journal of Discourses. The first quote by Brigham Young, is located in volume 3 page 360. The 2nd quote is located in volume 9 page 37.
I feel bad For any of you TBMs out there, that can hear or read these quotes, and then somehow justify them, and still call this man an inspired Prophet of God. What would it take for you to wake up and realize that this man, who is praised by Mormons and has a University named after him, had nothing to do with any God.
If their is a devil running around tormenting people, as part of God's inspired plan, then Brigham Young was one of his die-hard servants and did a great job. Also, the Mormon Hierarchy has never repudiated these quotes that Joy shares and still sells them in Jesus' one and only true and living bookstore. Brigham Young was a disgrace to mankind and a very vile human being. These quotes just add to his legacy of disgrace!!
Joy also mentions the studies done on Prozac use in Utah, among many drugs, compared to other places. Why is it so high? Hmm....70% Mormon and the highest Prozac use? You do the math, but it's not hard to figure out, is it? We are simply pointing out that people do what they have to, to cope with their life and that here in Utah, where most are Mormon, well....they never feel good enough and can never live up to the impossible, lofty standards that are given to them from birth.
The suicide rates in Utah, are also always among the highest in the country and it is all inter-related. One need only read the story of Kip Eliason, to see how awful the Mormon Church handles depressed people and what the end result may be.
Joy also shares a very personal story about a dear friend of hers and what he went through when he revealed to his family, that he was homosexual. His family is die-hard TBM, which means that they are intolerant and anti-gay, even with their own Son, because they follow the Mormon Church's teachings and beliefs on the subject, which includes the bigots Gordon B. Hinckley and Boyd K. Packer....which are 2 of the top 3 dogs of the Mormon Hierarchy.
Like Hinckley says, they have a problem and need to be fixed, but he also admits that he doesn't know how or why they are gay. Again, how can anyone support or justify this?
Please leave your comments and let us know what you felt while listening to this podcast and the personal experiences of Joy. I feel like Joy shared some very powerful things with all of us and I'll always be grateful to Joy, for giving her time, heart and soul to this podcast and all of you out there listening.
I know that it wasn't easy for her to discuss these things and I hope that it was helpful to some of you out there struggling. For those that don't think the Mormon Church destroys lives or ruins families, this interview with Joy, should help clear that up for you.
Samuel the Utahnite
posted by Samuel the Utahnite @ 5/28/2006 09:22:00 AM
25 comments
25 Comments:
first time visitor to your site.
i am currently downloading the first 8 of your podcasts.
am quite excited to listen to them. I cant wait to burn you on what you are saying about Mormonism. Joking.
Mormonism is the lie of the false prophet joseph smith. Do we know what the people were commanded to do with false prophets in old testament days?
Anywho, looking forward to hearing your perspective on these topics. will stop back in after listening to some of them.
-H.E. Cometh
Hey Good show Samual and Joy both. Sam just wondering if you got the book about the Da Vinci Code i sent you, there is a reason that Christains Threw out those "Other 80 'gospels'"(the number is actually 16 if you go by the most liberal count from any scolar) the others are texts but not 'gospels' the reason they were throw out is because they were all late on the field. the last new testament text is dated at the latest 90 most scholars date it at the year 80. the "gnostic" writings dont start to appear on the scene until the year 125 at the earliest dating. the book that is ref. in the Da Vinci Code was not written by Historians but authors who did poor research and bad scholarly work. there have been several BBC documents as well as documentaries in France proving that all the documents are a forge (just like the book of mormon).
i realize that most ex-mormons go through a brief spout of Atheism but please dont forsake Christ because of Judas or rather Joseph. Christians do have a reasonable Faith and there are many authors who prove it C.S. Lewis being one.
i resisted writing this but i just cant resist. Im a Catholic i go to confession weekly although that is not required. but this is insaine, we have confession but NOT LIKE THAT. they want to know details? if i commit adultry i dont tell the preist "i had oral sex and i liked it and she **** and she was ******* and then i F*** ger braubs out then she ate my ****" no i am a general as possible. that is just so sick and so crazy that they want that kind of detail.
I read the Story of Kip Elson when i was 14 years old and it made me cry. i am a guy by the way. it took one read to know that i never wanted to be a mormon. i could not imagine something like that he killed himself because he could not stop masturbating i get upset just thinking about it.
A truly sad story about your friend, Joy. People will put the church and its teachings above their own families. It's funny that the very same day this podcast was released, the Mormons everywhere are being encouraged, in Sacrament Meeting, to write their senators and petition them to amend the Constitution to clearly define marriage as a union by man and woman only! I am not gay, far from it. I do, however, have gay friends and this really goes too far! I almost cried when Joy told the story of her friend and the amount of pain he suffered because of the shame and guilt the church has put on him. This is truly a tragedy!
When I was dating my TBM ex-girlfriend I once asked her how she felt about homosexuality. It was a honest nonconfrontational quetion. She told me that she believed that homosexuals were people that simply chose to be homosexual in order to attract attention to themselves and that their lifestyle and actions were disgusting. (Her statement verbatim).
Since one of our co-workers was clearly very very gay (a nice/hilarious guy that we both got along with) I asked her if she would express this same opinion to him if he ever asked her? Obviously she wouldn't (even though it was the truth as proclaimed by god's one and only prophet).
Another thought, (I left the post about the TBM saying homosexuality was disgusting), I worked at a Boy Scout camp for 5 summers during high school and college. As it goes I know a lot of Boy Scouts. I would say that 99% of the Boy Scouts I know are not against homosexuals in the Boy Scouts. Most really don't care one way or the other if someone's homosexual. (One guy I know, heterosexual, actually left scouting because of the gay policy).
When the whole Boy Scouts and homosexuals thing became an issue in the late 1990s rumor had it that the LDS church threatned to withdraw it's members from the Scouting program if the BSA would ever let gays in. This is kinda a big deal because a decent percentage of Boy Scouts are Mormon.
Well, until a few minutes ago this was only a rumor to me. After doing a little research I found this link that confirms this as fact: http://lds-mormon.com/mormon_boyscouts_gays.shtml
Most scouts I know interpret scouting values in a way that runs contrary to the gay policy. They would rather embrace diversity and be accepting.
I have received some emails in regard to this particular podcast, so I figured I'd address the issues presented here (although I'm sure I'll get many more emails on part 3 because a very big topic of controversy comes up in that one that hasn't been presented yet).
The emails I've received are mostly from Christians and Catholics, citing research done on homosexuality, and how it is not a choice, but rather a "mental" condition. Ironically, these emails also say that my friend is "in their prayers". [I’m not even going to waste time explaining how offensive this is to me, since these same individuals would condemn him for the way he was living his life]
Before anyone else chooses to waste their dexterity in crafting another email to me to that effect, I'd like to expand my viewpoint on this subject.
Whether or not I am right or wrong in my belief that homosexuality is not something that a person "chooses" is irrelevant. I think that focusing on that detail is missing the point. The point I was raising by sharing the story about my friend was about a bigger issue. The point was to illustrate the shame that the Church can impose on a person, and the drastic measures that some will take to escape it. Homosexuality isn’t the only Mormon issue that brings that kind of personal destruction – it’s just the one issue that I’ve personally seen tear a person down.
Since leaving the church, I have chosen to subscribe to the doctrine of “Live and Let Live”. It is not my place to judge anyone, but rather to love each and every person as they are, for who they are. Any judgment I pass on any other individual (I believe) would reflect poorly on me and my character. I personally do not care if someone I associate with enjoys a homosexual lifestyle. Nor do I care how he came to the decision to be that way. I do have a number of gay friends, and each and every one of them swears that they knew they were attracted to the same-sex very early in life – which tells me that they were probably wired that way, and didn’t choose that very difficult path.
Thanks to everyone who has posted/sent their comments. I’ve enjoyed reading them. I had no idea that the story of my friend’s passing would spark such debate, but I thought it was an important issue to raise (even though it doesn’t deal specifically with the women’s issues in the Church).
And if anyone wishes to respond to any part of this comment, but feels to sheepish to post it here on an open forum, I can be reached via email at jezebelofperdition@gmail.com.
I will post another comment after part 3 is published, to tie up any loose ends.
Joy,
I am Christian man and I do agree homosexuality is a sin. I however do not condemn anyone for anything. Neither does God....You see, there is a difference of Comdemnation and Conviction. I see the Mormon Church comdemn people all the time. When you feel you are condemned for something, you are naturally driven away from God in anger...Conviction on the other hand makes you return to God and brings you closer to him. I would never condemn any person who is gay. If asked though....Is it a sin? Yes. The Bible says it is, and I believe in the Bible. I have some gay friends and I love them and so does God!! God hates sin, not sinners...Dont let any Christian tell you otherwise. God has given me a conscience with conviction...I never feel comdemned for my sins. Thats the freedom in Christ!! Mormons need to know this. Anyway...Great Job Sammy on the Podcast!!
Peace and Grace to you two...
-Eric Hoffman
"Living Truth Podcast"
Great podcast and dang good quote about leaving your wife.
Linked to you from my humble site.
Carnival of the Veil coming up tomorrow. I have three guest hosts lined up.
Great podcast. Joy is a delight to listen to.
I am still SUPER PISSED about something I hope you will mention--and that is that the goddamn Mormon church had the balls to baptize John Paul II 4 times!
I cannot freaking believe that they have so much arrogance and so little respect for John Paul. Good hell, what makes those effing b-tards think for one damn minute that John Paul II would CHOOSE to be a freaking Mormon???
After all he was the leader of the Catholic Church for 25 years. So one year after his death, he is ready to be a effing Mormon?
Goddamn I get pissed at that kind of arrogance.
Sorry to rant about this on your comment site, especially when you want comments about the podcast. Again, loved the podcast. hate the effing Mormon church.
I just felt that I needed to clarify: People who are gay, in my opinion, they are just indivduals like us. Just the same. Same "sins", same fears, same obstacles in life.
I know that the part 2 of the podcast doesn't divulge how my friend actually passed. It will be spoken of in part 3. If any of you people still want to send me ridiculous email about how bad homosexuality is, wait until you hear the whole story. Only then will you possibly have some sensitivity to how I might be feeling when my friend has only been buried for two months.
First I just want to say that you so called Christians are making me want to vomit. I find your insensitivity to be appalling, disgusting and revolting. It's all about who's a sinner and what their sin is, isn't it? Who gives a damn if the man is dead, right? What a disgrace!!
Wow...Joy, who is a great woman, who has gone through a lot, shares a very personal story about a best friend of hers, that has died recently, and all you Bible thumpers can focus on, is the fact that he was a homosexual and a sinner in the eyes of God and the Bible. You are just as bad and judgmental as the Mormons are!!
Maybe you should all go take some sensitivity training or better yet human decency training. If this bullshit is being taught in Christianity, who the hell would leave Mormonism and its bigotry, just to become a Christian, who believes in the same exact bigotry they are trying to escape. It disgusts me!!
What is this BS about, "God hates the sin but loves the sinner?" Give me a break Eric!! I know that we're friends Eric, but this is ridiculous in my opinion and I'm disappointed in your views.
It sadly looks like Christianity is telling you what to think and believe, just like Mormonism tells its members. Hey, if it's in the Bible and God said it there, then it must be and has to be true, right? Hmm...kind of sounds like The Book of Mormon and D&C, doesn't it?
God was the one that brought sin into the world, wasn't he? Wasn't it all part of his plan? Jesus Christ, who is the same God to you guys, that made the plan, and had to be crucified because of the sin that was part of God's/his/Jesus' grand plan, right?
So, basically, God crucified himself, if you want to get down to it, didn't he? Who set these rules that God had to follow? Wasn't his crucifixion a great thing? It had to happen and he designed it to happen, right? I guess we should all be thanking Satan, Eve, Judas and everyone else that made it all happen, shouldn't we? I like to say, "thank God for Satan!!"
Of course, while he was Jesus, he pretended that he was praying to the Father, when he was really just praying to himself and deceiving and lying to everyone, by pretending that there was some supreme being in the sky. What a joke eh?
If he did indeed do that, as you guys claim he did, his credibility goes out the window. How did he get that voice to come out of the heavens? Now that was some damn good ventriloquism, wasn't it?
Forgive them, "MYSELF", for they know not what they do? What was the prayer in the Garden all about? Did he beg himself to forsake himself? He sounds like a very confused hombre!!
So anyway, back to the God "loves sinners and hates the sin" BS as it relates to homosexuality; if a person is homosexual, that is who they are, right?
So God hates their sin, and that they are gay, but loves them as a person, when that is who they are as a person, since they are gay? Do you realize how you are justifying your belief and how ridiculous it makes you and Christianity look?
Oh yeah, but every gay person, except maybe in some extremely rare and unexplainable instances, that have nothing to do with God, has chosen to be gay and more feminine or masculine; sorry, I forgot!!
For you guys, like Pyranima and Eric, maybe you can explain to all of us where Hermaphrodites come from...you know, they have both a penis and vagina from birth?
The parents have to decide if they will be male or female for their life and sometimes they choose wrong. Oh, but it couldn't be God, right Pyranima, because God would never allow something like that to happen.
People are born physically and mentally disabled, some are pre-destined to be serial killers,(as studies have shown) but that couldn't be God either, right?
Oh yeah, and what of all the rape, murder, torture, molestations and suffering that goes on in this world? That couldn't be God either, right? He has no control over anything, but he might step in to help someone find some lost car keys or something.
Do the people being raped and murdered pray? What about those that are covered in flies and starving to death over in Africa and other places around the world? Do they pray? I'm sure they do, but does he answer their prayers?
Well, maybe they weren't strong enough believers in Christ, or even worse, didn't even know Christ to believe in him, so he just lets them die and suffer. Who chose where these people were born? Did they decide or did God?
So, this all powerful, all knowing God, who knows the beginning from the end, just sits back and watches women and little children get raped and murdered, die of starvation, etc? Oh yeah, but he condemns homosexuality and is really worried about that, right?
Hey, aren't Christians also against masturbation? Does God have a little checklist? Good to see that God is worried about the important stuff, isn't it?
You guys that actually believe this and can't apply the same logic toward Christianity, that you apply toward Mormonism, have a big problem and are in big time denial.
The God of this world does very little if anything, to prevent the horrible atrocities of this world and to think that he's obsessed with homosexuals who are sinners, while ignoring all that I mentioned above is ridiculous and you know it!!
Click on your brains just for a second, unless you are afraid to, just like many Mormons are, because you know it doesn't make any sense at all and then what?
For you die-hard Christian activists, or Christians in general, my goal is not to offend, rather, to inform and try to get you to analyze things with the same critical eye, that you put toward Mormonism.
How can you guys judge Mormons, for saying, "well, you just have to have faith", when you say the same damn thing. How can you judge Mormons for condemning homosexuals or sinners in general, when you do the same damn thing? Can't you see it?
I've stated before and I'll state it again, I have no problem with the average Mormon or Christian, that just goes to church, tries to live a good life, etc.
My issues are with the Mormon Hierarchy and Apologists and in Christianity; my problems are with the activists, out there preaching their God as the only way and being just as judgmental and condemning as the people they are preaching against.
It's a hypocritical irony, isn't it?
That's all I have to say for now, but for your God's sake, have some sympathy and compassion toward Joy and her friend and quit praying for them, while condemning them, because it makes you look and sound like complete asses and she does not appreciate it, nor do I. Quit praying in vain!!
I won't be able to put out part 3 until Saturday evening, so until then, ponder what I've said and maybe you Christians can learn a thing or two.
All I can say is that I'm very disappointed and now I'm not sure who I have a bigger problem with now; the Christian Apologists responding here or the Mormon Apologists? I never thought that would happen but now I can see things much clearer than before and I thank you for that.
Best Wishes everyone and for those that have been kind, understanding and sympathetic toward Joy and her friend, thank you!! Maybe these Christians can learn a thing or two from you and be better for it.
I'm sorry Joy, that some people are so damn wrapped up in "their God" and "their Bible", that they can't see the human side of things.
It's just another tragedy, to see this type of behavior, by those who piously, consider themselves to be so holy and obedient.
Samuel
I echo the sentiments Samuel.
Perhaps the whole idea of "hating the sin, loving the sinner" is the most hypocritical thing about religion.
How is it possible? Sins are supposedly acts by people that go against God. I think its impossible to detach the act from the actor, and thus impossible to not define the person by their actions.
Do we hate murder but love the murderer? Do we hate rape but love the rapist? No, in American society the act is what defines the person.
Which leads to people hating the "sin" of being gay because of Christian traditions, leading to outright homophobia. Its bigoted and incredibly rude to pass judgment on someone for their orientation.
And what gives people the right to make the decision to say what is right and wrong. If it truly is God's wish that these things are sins, let him be the judge in this life or the next. The average person should have his plate full keeping himself out of trouble and being good to his fellow man.
What business is it of ours to pass moral judgment anyway? Gay or straight, shouldn't the focus be on the person's life and acts, rather than what goes on behind closed doors (which is frankly no one's business except him).
Sexual orientation is a very small part of a person's life, but religion has made it key. What about the way people treat their fellow man? Is being gay the deal breaker for someone who is otherwise a very good person?
A person usually only commits to one person sexually, but has hundreds of other acqaintances and family. The way the person treats those people should be way more important than the way they act with their partner.
In conclusion:
Whatever you feel about sexual orientation, how can you decry someone who obviously touched people in a profound way (Joy's story). Obviously the love shown by Joy toward her friend suggests that he was a good person living a solid life.
May we all leave behind people moved by our presence and relationships, rather than the petty spite about private life details shown by bigots and homophobes.
To quote the Bible:
Judge not, that ye be not judged" Mt 7:1
"Love thy neighbor as thyself" Ma 12:31
"Let he is without sin cast the first stone" Jn 8:7
Amen Samuel!!
I couldn't agree more!
Eric, I'm listening to your podcasts and while I really appreciate your effort to educate people on the destructiveness of Mormonism, I want to kindly help you see that you are just as mistaken in your fanaticism of the Bible.
I'm a lesbian and I tell you, my life is 100% better than it ever was in the church. I have no contact with my TBM family at all and I can honestly say I don't miss them. Why? Because you get to a point that the "love the sinner" bullshit gets to be the most repulsive, arrogant, rude comment to hear over and over, and I'd much rather spend my time with people who love me and I love them. In my opinion, people in relgion have not the first clue about what love really is. It isn't until you can let go of self-righteous judgement that you can actually see a person to love them.
Peace to all.
Some constructive criticism if you don't mind. I love your show, but the way you separate the shows into multiple parts and post them sequentially over the course of multiple weeks frankly drives me nuts. Why not just post all episodes the same day, or at least post one every day until the entire show has been posted?
The worst part about your podcast, hands down, is the delay between postings of the various portions of a show.
Thanks for taking the time to do the show though!
Thanks Anon for the "constructive criticism."
Now, if I can give some of my own;
I do the very best I can and if that isn't good enough for you or others, may I suggest that you move on and find a more acceptable and suitable podcast to listen to.
You can trust me when I say that I don't delay my podcasts on purpose or by design, as some of you seem to think I do. Why would I do that? Trust me, it is frustrating to me as well, when I can't get this stuff out there for you guys.
In addition to my podcast, I help a lot of people through Email and in person or over the phone and I have personal and family obligations as well, that come up and come before the podcast.
Also, if you had paid any attention to the things that I've written over the last 2 months, you would know that the Jared Interview was so spread out, due to my tech problems and issues.
It appears that you are a fan of the podcast, but not a close follower, or you would already know these things.
I spend a lot of time working on each podcast before publication and I will not just put out crap, to make a few people extra happy.
Maybe it would be good for those of you that have a problem with my delays, to create, record, produce, direct, edit and publish your very own podcasts, so that you can have some iota of comprehension of the large amount of time it takes to do correctly.
Now, I'm not producing a 20-30 minute podcast, rather, an hour to 2 hour podcast and that takes a lot more time.
There is no comparison between how easy it would be to put out a short little podcast each week, where I just wing it, versus a well prepared, well planned, well produced and edited podcast.
Now, Anon, if you want to pay all my bills for me each month or put me on a monthly salary, to just produce timely podcasts, and write my blogs, great!!
The fact is, I do have other obligations and I'm not at the point yet, where this is all I have to worry about, as I do have bills to pay. I hope to be at that point in the near future, but I'm not there right now.
For about the last year, I have spent an enormous amount of personal time on researching/reading and then last August, I started my Mormon Truth blog and then in November my podcast and Mormon Truth Podcast Blog.
I have worked as little as possible, to be able to focus 100% on this and I have extinguished my personal savings and have received help from family members and listeners, that believe in what I'm doing, in order to go forward.
I also greatly appreciate the donations that I've received, as they have helped tremendously, but they haven't been enough for me to be 100% dedicated the way that I want to be and the way that some of you obviously want me to be.
Again, I do the very best I can and I'm sorry that my delays are so frustrating to you. I was going to put out part 3 last Wednesday, but a family matter came up and I even left a note that I wouldn't be able to put it out until Saturday.
Well, I was gone longer than expected and so it will be out today. I don't feel that I need to go into details, as to why the delays happen or what issues come up. Sometimes I share them, sometimes I don't, it's up to me whether I feel the need to share them or not.
If I was being paid by you, as an employee, you would have a beef Anon, and could fire me, or reprimand me, but since I'm not, I don't really find your "constructive criticism" to be very constructive.
But, that's fine, you stated how you feel and why and now I'm telling you how I feel and why. I do believe in honesty and openness here in the comment section.
But, like I said, I don't find it to be "constructive criticism", rather, I just find it to be unwarranted bitching, that I don't dedicate 100% of my time to the podcasts, for free, on my own dime for the most part.
You do not pay for the podcasts and I do not know who you are or if you have donated to me, but I would be more grateful for the time that I do dedicate, which is a lot, instead of bitching about the time I don't spend.
Again, what does it cost you in the end? As far as I know, nothing, except your time to listen!!
I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but when somebody like myself, has personally dedicated and sacrificed, an enormous amount of time, money and energy, to bring you my blogs and podcasts and then somebody bitches that I don't do more or do it quicker; well, it just rubs me the wrong way.
Now, like I said, if you want to fully support me, to be able to be more dedicated, and help more people, then drop me an Email and we'll talk.
If not, just be happy and grateful for what you get, FOR FREE!! Hopefully my delays will be less than they have been recently and you will continue to listen and be more grateful for my personal sacrifice and what I do for you and many others.
I know that the great majority of you out there, do not fall into Anons category and do indeed understand and appreciate what I do. I thank you for that and your support and understanding.
Also, thanks to those that supported my last comments and responded. I appreciate it and I'll respond more when I have time.
By the way, I'm still waiting for a die-hard Christian activist, to tell me exactly and precisely, where hermaphrodites come from and why they are born this way?
We know that God is off the table, as that just can't even be a possibility, since gays are not born gay and it is a sin.
Hmm...let's see, birth defects, down syndrome, cancer, and all other genetic diseses...where do they come from? Oh yeah, but homosexuality is wrong and you are sure of that, because it's in the Bible, right?
Too bad the Bible didn't discuss hermaphrodites, isn't it? Then you could answer me. Was Jesus/God, aware of people with two sets of privates?
If you guys notice, not one die-hard Christian has responded to my comments and to me, or your responses and their silence speaks a thousand words. If you guys have all the answers, what are they and why aren't you responding?
Please enlighten us with your "only truth." Please share with us what the Bible says on this subject, since it is so perfect and contains everything we need to get through life.
What does the Bible say about hitting a pregnant woman for example? Oh yeah, as long as the woman doesn't die and just the baby does, after a man beats her, it's okay. Wow, that's just great, isn't it?!! How incredibly inspiring!!
Here are some great examples of inspiration from the Bible and the God of the Bible, which apparently has no errors or mistakes, according to the die-hard Christian activists:
http://scriptures.lds.org/1_sam/15
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
http://scriptures.lds.org/ex/21
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life
What about gang rape:
http://scriptures.lds.org/judg/19
"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)
How about silencing women and showing how the man is superior?
http://scriptures.lds.org/1_tim/2
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
http://scriptures.lds.org/eph/5
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)
(And we wonder where Joseph Smith and the Mormons get this shit from?)
http://scriptures.lds.org/1_cor/14
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
http://scriptures.lds.org/gen/3
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)
How about the advocation of slaughtering innocent children and there are plenty of examples of this:
http://scriptures.lds.org/hosea/13
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." (Hosea 13:16)
Anyone who loves this God, must believe strongly and support murder of non-believers and infanticide, even though these infants couldn't have possible rejected God or ever known right from wrong, right? How sick is this shit?
The moral of the Bible or Christianity: Don't piss off this God or he will murder you, dash your infants into pieces and "rip up" pregnant women who shouldn't even be speaking in Church and who are subjected unto their husbands, since they transgressed.
Wasn't that God's magical plan? So, the woman is being punished for only doing what she was meant and supposed to do?
Do you feel inspired yet? Yeah, me either, in fact, it all makes me sick!!
I'll be waiting anxiously, for the Christian Apologist response to the above scriptures, as I'm sure they can justify them, just like Mormon Apologists do with The Book of Mormon.
So, go ahead and defend them, or use your cog dis to justify them and you will look just as stupid as the pathetic Mormon Apologists.
Best wishes everyone and enjoy part 3 of the interview with Joy, which will be out tonight.
Samuel
Sammy,
I am a Christian man....You know me!! You know my passion for people. You have stated it yourself. You know I respect you! You say you want an answer from the Christians?? I have left you countless emails, phone messages, skype messages...I mean come on. You have addressed so many questions. I would rather verbally tell you over the phone. Its too much for this comment stuff. Or anyone for that matter, who wants answers to these questions...
Skype me..."kolage5100" Samuel...I am still your friend and you still have my back.
As for the women out there....God loves you just as much as he loves men...in fact...God loves you more than you love yourself. For me that says a lot..cuz...well...I really like me!! It is Biblical that a woman shall not rule over a man...it goes; at the head of a woman is a man, and at the head of a man is Christ, and at the head of Christ is the Lord God. Also another thing to ponder:
The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved.
Samuel...I am looking forward to not only your next podcast, but a returned phone call....
Grace and Peace,
Your bro and friend NO MATTER WHAT!!
Samuel,
Kudos to you for not only seeing past the lies of Mormonism, but that of the Bible and other forms of Christianity as well! I was worried after listening to your show with Eric that he might suck you in from the bizarre groupthink of Mormonism to believing another set of absurd, nonsensical, groupthink of another religion.
Bottom line is every organized religion is man-made, and any that claim to speak on behalf of God, claim to have all the answers, or otherwise claim to be in possession of "the" truth are dangerous and to be avoided in my opinion.
If you are looking to try out a new religion without dogma and judgmental assholes, I recommend Unitarian Universalism.
Best wishes!
Samuel, my deepest apologies for obviously offending you with my "constructive criticism." I know you spend a lot of time preparing the shows and it is much appreciated. I didn't mean to imply that you should do more shows or spend more time on any particular show or on the podcasting in general. Rather, I intended to convey that it would be nice, once you have already prepared a show, to provide the entire show at once. I assumed that after a show is complete, it would take roughly the same amount of time to post the entire show (if not less) than to post them in sections days apart? Perhaps I was mistaken in making that assumption.
In short, I (wrongly, I'm guessing) assumed that you had all the parts of show ready to post at once and were merely choosing to post them sequentially over the course of a certain period of time. Again, I apologize and do appreciate your time and efforts to expose what may the largest cult in the world.
No hard feelings?
Eric said:
Sammy,
I am a Christian man....You know me!!
Eric, I know that and everyone here probably knows that by now, as you made it clear in your last comment about "God loving the sinner and hating the sin" and that "you were a Christian man."
But, what does that mean exactly? Define your idea of what Christian is and what happens to those of us that aren't your idea or version of Christianity.
Will we lose our souls forever? Will we be banned from Heaven? I guess it did me no good to leave Mormonism, right? Either way, I'm gonna lose my soul, unless I come over to your side, so WTF?
You know my passion for people. You have stated it yourself. You know I respect you!
Eric, I respect you too, a lot, for what you do to spread the truth of Mormonism, and as a person, but I don't appreciate or respect your blanket condemnation of all Mormons, or non believers of what you believe to be correct, as you did at the end of your podcast #3, which I've been meaning to talk to you about.
You said, in the closing of podcast #3, in reference to Mormonism and the average Mormon:
"Believing this false doctrine that Satan taught and that Joseph Smith believed and that Brigham Young carried out to all the rest of the Prophets, will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven forever. These are dangerous grounds folks; to believe in Mormonism, it really is........
Now, you have the chance publicly, to either support these comments or retract them. Either you believe them and stand by them or you don't, as there is no in between and no middle ground.
I hope that you will ponder this seriously, in your heart and mind, if you believe this statement to be true and I hope that you really don't believe it Eric.
Personally, I hope for a retraction, as I find these words to be unacceptable, highly offensive, condemning and no better than what Mormonism teaches and preaches.
"Will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven forever"...wow, that's pretty damn harsh man. You seem to be placing the judgments of your God on everyone. Who gave you or anybody, that authority to speak in that way? Let us know if you really believe this Eric.
I know that you have great passion, and care a lot for people, but beyond proving that Mormonism is a fraud, I feel that it is misguided for you to believe that everyone must come unto your God, your Christ, or their souls will be lost forever or no heaven for them.
Your personal beliefs and ideas and conversion, are now something that everyone must believe in, or else? Gee, it kind of sounds like a Mormon missionary preaching, doesn't it?
I hate to see you go down this road Eric, because I've already been down it and it won't do you, nor anybody else, any good at all.
You seem to have become more extreme over the past few months and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's the company you keep or your new Christian friends or maybe you were always this extreme and I just didn't realize it fully, until recently? I don't really have the answer.
Maybe I can see things more clearly now, which in turn, has allowed me to see more clearly what you are doing and saying?
However, this condemnation is no better than what you preach against in Mormonism and is very hypocritical in my opinion.
Why are your claims of truth any better, different or more true, than the Mormon claims? I know that you have the common sense Eric, to work through this, with the same critical eye that you put toward Mormonism and other religions and I have hope for you.
You say you want an answer from the Christians??
Yes I do and I wasn't just addressing you, but any Christian. I thought that Pyranima might want to jump in, since he always has so much to say. By the way, Pyranima, if I didn't already say so, I did get that book, thanks!!
Eric, I don't give a rip, what your personal beliefs are, until you start using them to condemn innocent people, who don't believe what you do, or see God or Jesus as you do. Then, at that point, you aren't much different than Mormonism.
You and I have both quoted and condemned, innumerable times, the Mormons stand that all other religions are abominations. Hell, I taught it for 2 years on my mission.
Again, how is your statement any different than the Mormon's claim from the First Vision, that they have the only truth on the planet earth and represent the only correct way to return to God?
I have left you countless emails, phone messages, Skype messages...I mean come on.
Eric, do you really want to do this here? I mean come on Eric!! You want to go through how many calls, messages and Emails you've sent to me and vice versa and when we've talked and for how long?
Well, I don't want to, but you've forced me to, by making it look as if I've just been purposely ignoring your countless everything, which isn't true or even close to being true and I would hope that you would know that, but you apparently don't.
I'm not gonna let you call me out publicly, when your facts are fatally flawed, inaccurate and exaggerated. I'm going to deal with the facts here, and reality, as I always do.
Please let me help you out...countless Emails...hmm..since April 29, I have received 2 Emails from you that I can find, after a brief glance and 1 was in response to my Email responding to your first Email, all on May 30.
You wondered where I'd been, I explained that I had some family things and that I'd been very busy and not really in touch with anyone and you said:
No worries brotha!! I will talk to you soon....You take care of that family of yours!!
Grace and Peace to you and your family!!
I'm just trying to keep it real Eric and "countless Emails" is a gross exaggeration of the truth and you know it and now everybody else knows it.
Now, countless Phone messages and Skype messages?
You know that isn't true either, and not even close. I'm sorry, but I just can't stand it when someone starts calling me out with made up, fabricated facts.
The last 4 times we talked on Skype, you either didn't respond or had to run and twice, left me hanging. Once you said you would call me and never did, the other time, you said, BRB and never came back.
You tried to call me on May 19th and I missed your call and I left you this on Skype:
[5/19/2006 8:33:14 PM] S... says: Hey, sorry I missed your call earlier...so what's up? Get back to me when you can
That was the absolute last correspondence we had on Skype Eric, so once again, your claim of numerous, is way out of wack and dead wrong.
Now as far as you calling me, I have missed your calls on 6/5, yesterday, as I was in the middle of another phone call and on 6/1, as I was with family and not able to respond. I also missed your calls on 5/29, 2 calls on 5/25, then on 5/23 and 5/19.
So, yes, in the last 2 weeks, I have missed 7 of your calls and on 5/19, I left you the message on Skype, saying that I was sorry that I missed your call, so now we have 5 to deal with.
On 5/29, I was out of town and on 6/1, you knew I was out of town, due to our Email Correspondence, so that leaves 3 to deal with.
As far as the other calls, I don't recall what was going on, but for whatever reason, I wasn't able to answer or return your calls, as I've had a lot going on, as you clearly knew, because I told you so, which I don't need to explain to anybody in detail.
At least in this case, I guess 7, could be considered numerous, which includes yesterday, the call I Skyped you about and then when I wasn't even in town and 6/1, when you knew I was out of town.
I don't mean to be an ass about it, but I wasn't gonna let you say what you did publicly, without a public response Eric and you should know me by now.
I'm not gonna let you try to make me look bad, with false facts and just sit on my hands and let people believe what you wrote, without a response.
This message from you was unexpected and unfortunate, because I didn't want to have to write this response and didn't think I would have to.
I could have just deleted your message, but I don't do that. If somebody has a personal beef with me and wants to call me out, so be it, but I will always respond.
May I also say Eric, that we've been friends since February and we know that we have different beliefs about many things, and different agendas, once we get past Mormonism.
I want to simply help free people and help people cope with their pain and you want to free them and then help them believe what you believe. Why?
Because it is the only way and truth, while at the same time, you are condemning them if they don't follow your ways and beliefs, which is a big, huge difference from what I'm trying to do.
Also, I wanted to mention, that there have been numerous times that I've left you messages or tried to call you or Skype you and sometimes for a week or longer, we didn't talk at all.
Did I question you on why, where you were and freak out about it and take it public? No, I didn't and I wouldn't, because I see no need to do so and can't see what good will come from it.
You are not accountable to me Eric for your time, anymore than I'm accountable to you and we talk when we can talk, it's just that simple, or at least I thought it was.
I wasn't aware that we had a pre-set arrangement on how much we must talk, no matter what, or it was time to panic or something and take it to the comment section on my blog....damn!! My advice, is to just chill out man!!
You have addressed so many questions. I would rather verbally tell you over the phone. Its too much for this comment stuff. Or anyone for that matter, who wants answers to these questions...
Skype me..."kolage5100" Samuel...I am still your friend and you still have my back.
Eric, again, I appreciate you as a man, what you've been through as a person and what you do to expose Mormonism, but my praise ends there.
I simply cannot and will not condone your blanket condemnation of what I consider to be innocent people.
You are obviously entitled to believe and do whatever the hell you want and don't need my approval, or anybody else's anymore than I need yours or anybody else's.
I know we are friends, but friends that obviously disagree strongly about what people need to believe, or not have to believe, in order to be saved in the next life or just be okay and happy.
In my opinion, as you know, they don't need to believe in anything to do with any God, or Church, or Jesus, and if they are just good people and live good lives, they'll be fine. Your beliefs, condemn these people, which is unacceptable.
I openly and regularly, condemn the Mormon Hierarchy, because they are what I consider to be evil cult leaders perpetuating fraud and lies, to the harm of their members.
In the end, these evil men and their teachings destroy the individual and collective lives of individuals and families, while condemning them all the way to the bank.
According to your beliefs and the beliefs of Christianity as a whole, I'm most likely gonna lose my soul forever, and I'm doomed, so I don't even know why you would want me as a friend, but thanks.
It's ironic, that you consider me a friend, but probably pray for my lost soul, isn't it? That sounds eerily like what I used to do as a Mormon, with non-Mormons or inactive friends and family members.
It seems kind of odd doesn't it, especially when I promise and guarantee, that I will NEVER, EVER, believe what you believe, or see things like you see them, as it doesn't even make a shred of sense to me?
You got me all fired up with your "God loves the sinner and not the sin comment", plus your, "Why do so many Mormons become Atheists" on top of your comment to Joy, that homosexuality is a sin, but that you don't condemn homosexuals or anybody at all. Talk about double talk on the latter comment.
I was frankly pissed off at your comments, Pyranima's comments and Emails that both Joy and myself have received from so called Christians, whose Christian beliefs condemn gays.
It's like they aren't even human and there is no way, no way at all, that they could have been born that way, because the almighty God wouldn't ever allow something like that to happen. Give me a break!!
Eric, you have been reading my blog and listening to my podcasts, since last November or December and you know exactly what my views on this subject are, and we've discussed it numerous times; so it should have come as no surprise to you, that your comments got my ire up and really pissed me off.
Were you honestly not aware, after all of the open discussions we've had, how I felt about homosexuals and that I didn't consider it to be a sin? Do you support the ban on gay marriages Eric? What about civil unions?
Are you aware of the studies done over in Sweden and other places, where gay marriage has been legal for over 17 years? If not, you should check it out. A new book just came out, that goes into great detail about it.
You know how I felt about the Mormon man, who married his partner in Canada and now the Mormon Church wants to EX him, right? I expressed to you how angry it made me and you seemed to agree with me or at least didn't object.
I even wrote a post all about it, which you said you read:
http://mormontruth.blogspot.com/2006/03/did-deseret-news-edit-ap-story-about.html
So, I'm anxious to see what your Christian view of this situation really is, now that you've declared that homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of God and the Bible. Do your gay friends know that you believe them to be sinners?
Not one of you die-hard Christians seemed to give a shit or showed one ounce of compassion toward Joy, or her friend, as your "he was a sinner" comment seemed to be more important than the fact that he died and she was in pain.
If that is compassionate Christianity, and what you want people to believe in, I want nothing to do with it.
As you can tell Eric, I'm just plain sick of the religious zealots, of any religion, but especially Christianity and Mormonism, trying to shove their extreme beliefs down everyone's throats.
They are trying to push their pathetic, bigoted agenda on the whole country, while condemning everyone and anyone, that doesn't believe what they do. This is compassion, this is Christ's love?
I agree with one person, who eloquently and correctly stated, the sin lies not in the homosexual, their homosexuality or their sexual desires, rather all those that condemn the homosexual or his homosexuality. AMEN TO THAT!!
It makes me sick and I'm fed up. All people have rights to be with the person they love and to say differently, in the name of God and the Bible is flat out bigotry, plain and simple, no question in my mind.
As for the women out there....God loves you just as much as he loves men...in fact...God loves you more than you love yourself. For me that says a lot..cuz...well...I really like me!! It is Biblical that a woman shall not rule over a man...it goes; at the head of a woman is a man, and at the head of a man is Christ, and at the head of Christ is the Lord God.
So, Eric, it is indeed Biblical then, that a woman should obey the man and the man God, just like the Mormon temple ceremony used to be, right? So, I guess they had that right, before they took it out in 1990...oops for them!!
That should make you angry then, that they removed something that was true. I think it is extremely sexist, to say that about women and just wrong.
If a woman wants to have a career and be in the real world, or the breadwinner of a Family, who is anybody or any book, including the Bible, to say that she shouldn't be the one in charge, of gasp...men?
Shouldn't it say, according to the Christian belief in the Trinity:
At the head of a woman is a man, and at the head of a man is Christ, and at the head of Christ is himself, because he is Christ and God, all wrapped up in one neat little being?
Also another thing to ponder:
The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved.
Samuel...I am looking forward to not only your next podcast, but a returned phone call....
Grace and Peace,
Your bro and friend NO MATTER WHAT!!
June 05, 2006 8:17 PM
Eric, I had planned on calling you last night, but I know you love my comment section and read it a lot, so why don't you call me if you so feel inclined, after reading this comment in response to yours.
If I'm available to answer your call, I will. I do not sit around, just waiting for you to call me and I do have things to do today.
You can of course, take it to private Email, or continue on the public discussion here, as you already have.
A personal Email from you, would have been nice, and much more professional, and private, as I would have done that for you, but I guess if you want to air our laundry here, so be it.
It's not my way, but I guess the only way in this case, at this point and everybody has their own way of dealing with things and this was yours.
I'm simply responding to you and your comments and I never would have written this comment, if it wasn't for your comment. As I mentioned, I feel strongly, especially since leaving Mormonism, the need to defend myself.
It's unfortunate, but that's life sometimes, right? Maybe in the future, you could simply drop me an Email Eric, instead of bringing it here, just a suggestion.
I had missed your call at 7:30 and hadn't even had a chance to listen to your message, or respond, when 45 minutes later, you had already left me this message and then I had dinner and started my response to you.
I Hope to hear from you soon Eric, and hopefully we can continue being friends, despite our great differences.
I wish you the best, and as I've stated, I'm disappointed that you felt the need to leave your last comment.
Also, one last thing Eric, regarding your last statement; Do you believe "The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam" was a literal event, that actually happened, or was it just symbolic, like most every other thing in the Bible?
Now, let's get back on topic and on course, and help as many people as possible, to know the truth of the Mormon cult and their lies and frauds.
Let's help as many people as possible to heal and deal with their pain, without any new condemnation, heaped upon their old Mormon condemnation, that they are just barely escaping and trying to overcome.
Please let us Ex-Mormons feel some love, compassion and understanding, without condemning us all over again, if we don't want to believe as you do.
Can't you see the hypocrisy in what you are doing, or are you too blinded to see it?
For the rest of my life, I will steer clear, of anyone, or any organization, that claims to know the "only truth" and the "only path" to return to God.
They are just as dangerous and controlling as Mormonism and I consider that, to be the "dangerous ground."
In my opinion, they are all frauds and know no more or no less than I do, and have no more certainty, than anybody else.
Again, I want to be crystal clear, with no misunderstandings, that I don't condemn the average Mormon or Christian, rather those activists, in any religion, that go around spouting, "we are it", "we have the ONLY truth", and then they condemn anyone that doesn't follow them.
Again, I ask the question; why would any Mormon, or anyone that just got out of a horrible cult, who escaped a life of condemnation and threats, lies and fear, just to become a Christian and have to go through it all again. That would be lunacy!!
It is utter arrogance, just like the Mormons, to claim that you have the only truth and that the whole world should abide by it and believe in it, or else be "banned from heaven forever."
This kind of talk will benefit nobody and will only cause more fear and pain!!I'm sorry that Eric and I had to take this public, but I had to defend myself.
Thanks for your support everyone and I look forward to your responses.
Samuel
Anon,(June 06, 2006 2:36 PM) No hard feelings at all and thanks for being cool about my response!!
I've just been a little fed up, with a lot of BS lately, as I'm sure you and everyone can tell, and your comment, just kind of set me off and wasn't what I needed, at that particular moment.
I apologize for being so brutal toward you, but I'd just had it and that was the tipping point. I was a can of gas and you were the match and boom!!
I've also had several very stressful, personal experiences in the last week with TBM family members and their nonsense, just discussing basic things about the Church.
They don't even have a clue that I'm a non-believer and against the Church now, yet they can't even discuss basic things...it's amazing!!
My favorite experience was the crying, shaking uber TBM family member, that was bearing their testimony to several of us, very loudly.
It was because they overheard a simple discussion, that in no way involved them, about the Church and some of the bad things that Mormon leaders have said.
They took it all personally, as if we were cutting them down and disrespecting them; but yet, they had no respect for anything we had to say and they were ignoring the actual comments of their dear leaders, that they love and worship so much.
Their response was, "well, I'm sure that they meant something else and didn't mean it the way you think they did, you misread, or misunderstood the comments and everyone has a different understanding of things", etc.
It was the best display of "Cog Dis", that I've ever seen, and it was live, with tears, shaking and all. It was truly incredible and sad!! I just sat there shocked!!
I was thinking, "cult member in action, right here, live and in the flesh and they don't even realize it."
It helped me to put it all in perspective and remember that these folks are innocent victims of the Mormon cult machine and that we should never forget that.
I was once one of them, until my escape, about 1 year ago. In fact, many of us were victims of the Mormon cult. These people need love and compassion, but also understanding.
I stood up to this person, as kindly as I could, to try to break through the layers of indoctrination, that have been built up over a lifetime of brainwashing and I tried to help them see some different perspectives. Time will tell, but I don't think I got anywhere.
When given the chance, I feel like I need to try to help them see the light or just the fact that they need to respect others beliefs and ideas, which is completely foreign to them.
It's always a one way street with these TBMS, due to their intensive brainwashing, since birth in many cases.
As you can tell, my response yesterday, evolved into several other things, that were really bothering me, so I at least thank you for getting me started and all revved up...LOL!! I guess you were my springboard.
I do value you very much as a listener, but I've just had so much going on recently, this past 2 weeks and then dealing with some of the Emails and comments, on top of that, well, I just blew a gasket.
I guess we are all entitled to erupt once in a while, aren't we?
But, thanks again for being cool about it and I hope that you will continue listening and please forgive me for being so hard on you, as it was unwarranted and wrong of me.
So again, no hard feelings at all from me and I hope that you'll comment again and again and that my podcasts will be released more on schedule in the future. That is what I want too, believe me!!
Take care,
Samuel
Hey Samuel,
Maybe we could get the Dick n' Jane version of your comments. I dont know why you keep telling us that you have been too busy to put out your new podcasts, yet you have the time to write these marathon comments. Why dont you and Eric kiss and make up, and get on with the show!! This can't be good for the ratings!!
Hey Anon,(June 07, 2006 7:02 PM)
First of all, this is my site, my blog and I'll say whatever the hell I want, whenever I want and it will be as long as I want it to be. Got it?!! Is somebody forcing you to read it?
You have no control or say over me, my time, my site, or in what I choose to do and say or any say at all for that matter and I'm not sure why you think you do.
If you don't like my "marathon comments", then quit reading them and then bitching about them and get a damn life!! Please go find a more suitable podcast to listen to, that will make you happy, okay?
You don't know me, you don't know my life or what I've got going on and you never will, so stop pretending that you do. Are you by chance a Christian activist? Since you know me so well, I just thought I'd give it a shot to be fair.
Secondly, I am getting on with the show, doing the best that I can and I hope you aren't even around for it, since I don't want or need people like you as listeners.
I'm here to help people see the truth of the fraud of Mormonism and help them with their pain. I'm not here to help people like yourself, who obviously don't give a shit!!
I don't do this show for the "ratings" or "personal glory" and I've spent mostly my own time and money, for the last year, (except for the donations I've received, which I've appreciated very much and stated on many occasions), doing what I do.
The "thank you Emails", that I get on a daily basis, make up for the ignorant people like you and make it all worthwhile.
Thank you those that have sent me Emails of support or left positive comments, I greatly appreciate it!! You guys keep me going!!
I'm sure people won't stop listening to my show, just because Eric and I disagree on how, if and why people will "lose their souls forever" or because of anything you would say; if they do, then so be it and I wish them the best. It's called free agency!!
Eric and I are friends, with great differences and I'm sure we'll be just fine, as long as we agree to disagree on what comes after people leave Mormonism, and that there isn't only one true path, which is Christianity in his eyes.
I'm straight forward and to the point and if someone is gonna call me out, they will get it right back in their face.
I lived a life of having to suppress my feelings and personal opinions, which I will no longer do, no matter who they are or how good of a friend they are.
Just to be clear, I mostly speak of those that are publicly calling me out.
Wrong is wrong and I will call anybody out, as you should all know by now; if you even have a clue about what the hell I've been doing and what my purpose is?
If a BILLION dollar corporation doesn't intimidate me, certainly people like you don't, Anon.
Finally Anon, you can piss off!!(To put it nicely)
Is that direct enough for you or Dick n' Jane enough? LOL!!
I guess like the Doctrine and Covenants clearly states, I'm just "kicking against the pricks."
Samuel
Hey Christopher,
Thanks for all of your comments and I apologize for not responding to all of them on past podcasts.
Do me a favor and drop me an Email sometime, so that I can have your Email address and drop you a line back.
I also appreciate your knowledge and common sense, that you have shared in your comments, as it has been helpful to me in my journey.
I haven't listened to Eric's newest podcast yet, but I will. I don't think I'm banned from his podcast, but we do have some things to discuss and major differences in opinion.
I guess if you can have Hannity and Colmes, you can have Samuel and Eric, right?
Eric and I have had differences all along, and expressed them to each other. I just didn't realize how great they were, as I chose to focus on our common goal of exposing the fraud of Mormonism.
I know that Eric has a good heart, is a good person, sacrifices his time and truly wants to help people; I just don't agree with what he and most Christian activists see, as the necessary end result to return to God.
I'm sincerely hoping that most Christians don't see things the way they do, and aren't as harsh and judgmental.
As I've stated, according to their formula, I'm completely screwed, along with many of you listening and reading my blogs and podcasts.
I have to admit, I'm very sick and tired right now, of the "Jesus and Christianity or bust" scenario that is growing on several podcasts.
I mean these guys can believe whatever they want, but I hope that at some point, they can wake up and realize, that their judgments, are just as harsh, and wrong, as the very Mormon Hierarchy they preach against.
Can they honestly not see this? Really? Come on guys...
Take care Christopher and yes, I have seen the light. I was just in transition, trying to make sense of it all, which I have now done, for the most part.
When almost every spiritual belief or teaching, that you've ever known, since childhood, turns out to be part of a huge fraud and cult; well, it takes some time to unravel and put things back together again.
Thankfully, I'm now finally beginning to do that and it feels good, to actually know what I believe and be able to express it, which I will do in full, very shortly.
One thing I won't ever do, is apologize for how I feel or for what I believe. If people don't like it, well, I don't care.
The big difference is, I'm not going to say; my way or the highway to hell.
Samuel
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